I have been doing the contest circuit for a while now but recently I have noticed something. Communities voting less. E.g Threadless - Gone from 2,449 people voting when my first tee printed to 1,331 people for my second. And the number seems to have dipped recently more so. DBH - Votes seem low, outstanding designs only seem to be getting 60 votes compared to some reaching well over 100 in the past. I could go on with examples but I just wondered what the feeling was here. Are voters voting with their feet and walking.....? What's your experience? Voter, non voter, stopped voting, vote religiously? 2009-06-26T20:50:32-04:00 81 2009-06-11T11:58:40-04:00 39321 false false 12224 2991 1 2009-11-07T21:59:04-05:00 1059 I hear ya. The explanation over at T-Less has been that there are more designs being voted on and therefore people don't get around to voting for each and every submission. Not sure about that myself.... 39321 Post 2009-06-11T12:03:21-04:00 1145571 2734 2009-06-11T12:03:21-04:00 i don't like to vote. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T12:04:04-04:00 1145591 6901 2009-06-11T12:04:04-04:00 <blockquote><cite>daleedwinmurray said:</cite> I hear ya. The explanation over at T-Less has been that there are more designs being voted on and therefore people don't get around to voting for each and every submission. Not sure about that myself....</blockquote> interesting... maybe. I have scored every design since I started there. Interestingly it was hard to get a 2 when i first started now it's a 3 - maybe rise in standard? 39321 Post 2009-06-11T12:04:41-04:00 1145601 2991 2009-06-11T12:04:53-04:00 <blockquote><cite>mattFOO said:</cite> i don't like to vote.</blockquote> Any reason why? I am genuinely interested in this. Weird I know. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T12:05:39-04:00 1145611 2991 2009-06-11T12:05:39-04:00 DBH used to plaster the hottest designs of the day on the front page, I think designs lost alot of momentum when people stopped having a short list to go to. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T12:06:04-04:00 1145641 997 2009-06-11T12:06:04-04:00 <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> DBH used to plaster the hottest designs of the day on the front page, I think designs lost alot of momentum when people stopped having a short list to go to.</blockquote> great point. That never occurred to me. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T12:07:25-04:00 1145671 2991 2009-06-11T12:07:25-04:00 <blockquote><cite>wotto said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> DBH used to plaster the hottest designs of the day on the front page, I think designs lost alot of momentum when people stopped having a short list to go to.</blockquote> great point. That never occurred to me.</blockquote> Yeah, I wonder why they stopped that. I know it probably makes it fairer for everyone but it almost feels like we are all missing out in the name of fairness 39321 Post 2009-06-11T12:08:50-04:00 1145711 2734 2009-06-11T12:08:50-04:00 Maybe it's the type of people that are now part of these communities? I mean, have the type of shirts being printed changed over the time your first print was made, attracting different types of people to the site maybe? <blockquote><cite>daleedwinmurray said:</cite> The explanation over at T-Less has been that there are more designs being voted on and therefore people don't get around to voting for each and every submission. Not sure about that myself....</blockquote> To be honest that sounds pretty feasible, they've had some mammoth growth there over the past few years. They're over 1M strong now I believe. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T12:08:54-04:00 1145721 3715 2009-06-11T12:08:54-04:00 I vote for the designs that I'm really into but the whole begging for votes thing has made me not want to as much. I'm not sure the votes even matter anymore these days.. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T12:09:08-04:00 1145731 3775 2009-06-11T12:09:08-04:00 <blockquote><cite>cbass99 said:</cite> I vote for the designs that I'm really into but the whole begging for votes thing has made me not want to as much. I'm not sure the votes even matter anymore these days..</blockquote> I know what you're saying. It's really hard to resist promoting your designs (I guess that's what you mean by begging) because there are just so many folks now vying for the win. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T12:13:42-04:00 1145841 2734 2009-06-11T12:13:42-04:00 I used to vote for everything. But there are so many sites and so many entries, that it's just not feasible anymore if I want to actually get anything done, lol. At this point I pretty much only vote on what I'm linked to, lol. And I try to vote at DBH every couple of days since the number of entries to go through there is pretty manageable/skim-able. I miss seeing the pure volume and range of work I used to, but in the end I prefer having time to work on projects of my own. I'm guessing a lot of people start out the way I did and transition into voting less in favor of contributing to the community in other ways. It's also possible that given the sheer number of contest sites, the voting pool is dispersing from the giants to the smaller sites that might be a more targeted fit for their tastes. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T12:18:40-04:00 1145911 2228 2009-06-11T12:18:40-04:00 i vote on threadless every once in a while, it seems like im scoring 1 and 2 or skipping altogether rather than giving good scores so i just tend to help out people who's work i follow on flickr or whatever. As far as DBH, the contests absolutely killed that site for me. You go to check out some original work and its all badly drawn little waynes floating in space. Plus they just kind of print what they want anyway, votes are meaningless. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T12:27:39-04:00 1146021 1146 2009-06-11T12:27:39-04:00 Some good points MJ Derek I know what you mean about having to go through the pain of scoring all the 1's and 2's at threadless and I have to admit it's hard to keep scoring. I also never score contest stuff at DBH, I look between the Kiss subs to find the gold. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T12:39:41-04:00 1146331 2991 2009-06-11T12:39:41-04:00 personally - I think the actual volume of designs to be voted on has exploded. I mean to say that perhaps the amount of voters has stayed about the same but apply that same group to a much larger pool of designs and you get lower vote counts. I like how there are rumors of speedy voting systems and iphone voting apps - 39321 Post 2009-06-11T12:41:12-04:00 1146371 7336 2009-06-11T12:41:12-04:00 <blockquote><cite>isaboa said:</cite> personally - I think the actual volume of designs to be voted on has exploded. I mean to say that perhaps the amount of voters has stayed about the same but apply that same group to a much larger pool of designs and you get lower vote counts. I like how there are rumors of speedy voting systems and iphone voting apps -</blockquote> good point ISA. I think the recession has a part to play too. Maybe artists are seeking out other ways to make $$$ so more established artists are contributing as the freelance world has taken a tumble. Maybe? 39321 Post 2009-06-11T12:42:45-04:00 1146401 2991 2009-06-11T12:43:06-04:00 I make a point to make sure I go through everything at both DBH and Threadless (Threadless seems like it takes forever to score all the designs though). To be honest, it seems like there is more crap flooding both sites, so I ignore those. I know at DBH they've decided to start doing a little more quality control, and raising the bar a little on what's accepted for voting so the voting pages are flooded, which I think is a really good idea. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T13:08:21-04:00 1146801 12432 2009-06-11T13:08:21-04:00 I think like most new things, voting gave me something to do while I was bored. But like everything else in life, that too became a mundane task and now I rarely visit voting sites. I'm also lazy. They make voting sites way too complicated, especially if it's a new voting site. I have to go through a whole registration process just to help someone else out. That's tedious. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T13:16:04-04:00 1146981 3352 2009-06-11T13:16:04-04:00 Too many submissions is my guess. We've made a decision recently to reject more. We will feel more heat from angry artists DEMANDING to know why, but it's not fun to wade through... 39321 Post 2009-06-11T13:20:05-04:00 1147081 2865 2009-06-11T13:20:05-04:00 <blockquote><cite>jimiyo said:</cite> Too many submissions is my guess. We've made a decision recently to reject more. We will feel more heat from angry artists DEMANDING to know why, but it's not fun to wade through...</blockquote> That's a brave move Jim but one I respect. Hopefully it will help. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T13:21:23-04:00 1147111 2991 2009-06-11T13:21:23-04:00 ISABOA's point is spot on. More designs x more community-based tee sites = overkill. I try to cycle through as many designs as possible at Threadless but once I've had my fill there, it seems like a drag to go to DBH, shirt.woot, Teextile, TeeInvaders, etc. If all of the aforementioned sites developed API's that one central site could utilize, voters could go to that central site and vote/comment on designs from all of the tee communities. That would rule! 39321 Post 2009-06-11T13:24:20-04:00 1147201 4173 2009-06-11T13:26:47-04:00 <blockquote><cite>lunchboxbrain said:</cite> ISABOA's point is spot on. More designs x more community-based tee sites = overkill. I try to cycle through as many designs as possible at Threadless but once I've had my fill there, it seems like a drag to go to DBH, shirt.woot, Teextile, TeeInvaders, etc. If all of the aforementioned sites developed API's that one central site could utilize, voters could go to that central site and vote/comment on designs from all of the tee communities. That would rule!</blockquote> that's a great idea. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T13:28:44-04:00 1147291 2991 2009-06-11T13:28:44-04:00 Yes, there are waaaaaay more submissions now. At threadless, i used to be able to give a vote for all the designs and come back the next day and there would be 20-30 new designs to vote on. Now it seems like there 100-200 new designs a day. I just can't keep up with it so I mainly just vote for the ones that people are promoting through sites like emptees and flickr. DBH voting isn't too bad yet but some of the contest designs are annoying and so are people commenting just to get you to vote for them. I do really like that you can just skim through the thumbnails and vote from there. Helps to skip through all the bad designs. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T13:29:40-04:00 1147301 6270 2009-06-11T13:29:40-04:00 <blockquote><cite>lunchboxbrain said:</cite> ISABOA's point is spot on. More designs x more community-based tee sites = overkill. </blockquote> ^^that. i've pretty much grown tired of voting for designs. the stuff I like doesn't always get printed and it seems like the 'survival of the fittest' mantra in the design community is wearing itself thin. there are too many good designers out there getting rejected and not enough companies printing their designs. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T13:29:59-04:00 1147311 12224 2009-06-11T13:29:59-04:00 Interesting. I vote on every design on threadless, but I've almost completely stopped commenting. I've just gotten lazy. I occasionaly vote on DBH, but not as frequently as I use to. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T13:31:53-04:00 1147351 3000 2009-06-11T13:31:53-04:00 Interesting topic Wotto... I do not sub to threadless much, but have noticed the clear downfall of voters currently in comparison to when I first found the site years ago. It is pretty odd. I as well miss the DBH Top designs on the main page. That was a true help to see the better pieces up for voting over there. <blockquote><cite>daleedwinmurray said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>cbass99 said:</cite> I vote for the designs that I'm really into but the whole begging for votes thing has made me not want to as much. I'm not sure the votes even matter anymore these days..</blockquote> I know what you're saying. It's really hard to resist promoting your designs (I guess that's what you mean by begging) because there are just so many folks now vying for the win.</blockquote> I think there's a difference between putting a link out there for your work to encourage a vote, rather than the absolute begging that plagues these sites today. The usual difference is whether or not the artist in question is part of a community (like this one) or not. The ones whoring themselves for a vote are usually newbies who don't really take part in the overall online communities based around these competition sites, in my opinion. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T13:33:01-04:00 1147371 1025 2009-06-11T13:33:38-04:00 <blockquote><cite>mattFOO said:</cite> i don't like to vote.</blockquote> 39321 Post 2009-06-11T13:36:37-04:00 1147411 2418 2009-06-11T13:36:37-04:00 <blockquote><cite>wotto said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>isaboa said:</cite> personally - I think the actual volume of designs to be voted on has exploded. I mean to say that perhaps the amount of voters has stayed about the same but apply that same group to a much larger pool of designs and you get lower vote counts. I like how there are rumors of speedy voting systems and iphone voting apps -</blockquote> good point ISA. I think the recession has a part to play too. Maybe artists are seeking out other ways to make $$$ so more established artists are contributing as the freelance world has taken a tumble. Maybe?</blockquote> I would like to add that community-based sites aren't a guarantee of payment. as I stated above, i've seen a lot of really good designs getting rejected but this is why I think sites like emptees and kingstrike are an asset to designers....it allows them to put themselves out there without relying on sites like Threadless to get paid. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T13:37:41-04:00 1147441 12224 2009-06-11T13:37:41-04:00 The volume of designs and the amount of different sites that are doing the same thing is my guess. It's hard to vote on everything, everywhere. I vote at threadless when I can, especially if someone hits me up with an e-mail or tweets about it. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T13:38:01-04:00 1147451 7578 2009-06-11T13:38:01-04:00 some great points being made here. Hope some of the sites are reading this. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T13:40:37-04:00 1147481 2991 2009-06-11T13:40:37-04:00 <blockquote><cite>DCAY said:</cite> Interesting topic Wotto... I do not sub to threadless much, but have noticed the clear downfall of voters currently in comparison to when I first found the site years ago. It is pretty odd. I as well miss the DBH Top designs on the main page. That was a true help to see the better pieces up for voting over there. <blockquote><cite>daleedwinmurray said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>cbass99 said:</cite> I vote for the designs that I'm really into but the whole begging for votes thing has made me not want to as much. I'm not sure the votes even matter anymore these days..</blockquote> I know what you're saying. It's really hard to resist promoting your designs (I guess that's what you mean by begging) because there are just so many folks now vying for the win.</blockquote> I think there's a difference between putting a link out there for your work to encourage a vote, rather than the absolute begging that plagues these sites today. The usual difference is whether or not the artist in question is part of a community (like this one) or not. The ones whoring themselves for a vote are usually newbies who don't really take part in the overall online communities based around these competition sites, in my opinion.</blockquote> Oh yeah, if you're talking about the plague of writing "Great design, now go check mine..." in the comments for your tee then, yeah that is annoying. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T13:43:45-04:00 1147511 2734 2009-06-11T13:43:45-04:00 Personally, I understand that the allure to business owners is to create interest and gauge how well a design will sell before printing it, but I never understand why they all follow the threadless model and don't just grab their balls and say 'I want to work with THAT guy', buy a design and go for it. If you want to start a clothing line then do it. There's too many threadless clones out there now. It's great that DBH ran with it, and no offence to most others (shirtfight/teeinvaders/etc) as some of them are visually doing a great job, but the saturation of that model means that in the long term, most of them will struggle to last. I'd rather just see these entreprenuers just start a clothing company and do it the way most of us designers would like to. Release a shirt each week, but curate it and offer good money to attract the good guys. I don't think that's been done yet has it? 39321 Post 2009-06-11T13:48:53-04:00 1147571 71 2009-06-11T13:48:53-04:00 <blockquote><cite>steven said:</cite> Personally, I understand that the allure to business owners is to create interest and gauge how well a design will sell before printing it, but I never understand why they all follow the threadless model and don't just grab their balls and say 'I want to work with THAT guy', buy a design and go for it. If you want to start a clothing line then do it. There's too many threadless clones out there now. It's great that DBH ran with it, and no offence to most others (shirtfight/teeinvaders/etc) as some of them are visually doing a great job, but the saturation of that model means that in the long term, most of them will struggle to last. I'd rather just see these entreprenuers just start a clothing company and do it the way most of us designers would like to. Release a shirt each week, but curate it and offer good money to attract the good guys. I don't think that's been done yet has it?</blockquote> well teeinvaders paid up for 3 designers to launch and i think we may continue to look at specific artists to work with. More curated. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T13:51:53-04:00 1147591 2991 2009-06-11T13:51:53-04:00 I stopped voting because a place like DBH doesn't print based on the number of votes. It just seems like they arbitrarily pick their favorite and that's what they print. I've never voted on the big contests because I don't agree in designers being able to submit as many designs as they want. You should be allowed to submit ONE design and that's it. I've pretty much stopped going to those tee contest sites. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T13:54:57-04:00 1147631 1661 2009-06-11T13:54:57-04:00 <blockquote><cite>wotto said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>steven said:</cite> Personally, I understand that the allure to business owners is to create interest and gauge how well a design will sell before printing it, but I never understand why they all follow the threadless model and don't just grab their balls and say 'I want to work with THAT guy', buy a design and go for it. If you want to start a clothing line then do it. There's too many threadless clones out there now. It's great that DBH ran with it, and no offence to most others (shirtfight/teeinvaders/etc) as some of them are visually doing a great job, but the saturation of that model means that in the long term, most of them will struggle to last. I'd rather just see these entreprenuers just start a clothing company and do it the way most of us designers would like to. Release a shirt each week, but curate it and offer good money to attract the good guys. I don't think that's been done yet has it?</blockquote> well teeinvaders paid up for 3 designers to launch and i think we may continue to look at specific artists to work with. More curated.</blockquote> there are definitely a few of us here with stuff in the works (myself included) but there's always room for more. I won't be officially launching until august or september mainly because i've been getting my ecommerce site ready. plus, financial constraints tend to delay things as i'm sure a lot of you can relate to. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T13:56:56-04:00 1147651 12224 2009-06-11T13:56:56-04:00 <blockquote><cite>steven said:</cite> Personally, I understand that the allure to business owners is to create interest and gauge how well a design will sell before printing it, but I never understand why they all follow the threadless model and don't just grab their balls and say 'I want to work with THAT guy', buy a design and go for it. If you want to start a clothing line then do it. There's too many threadless clones out there now. It's great that DBH ran with it, and no offence to most others (shirtfight/teeinvaders/etc) as some of them are visually doing a great job, but the saturation of that model means that in the long term, most of them will struggle to last. I'd rather just see these entreprenuers just start a clothing company and do it the way most of us designers would like to. Release a shirt each week, but curate it and offer good money to attract the good guys. I don't think that's been done yet has it?</blockquote> Aubrey and I started FMT as a design community because we loved the idea of creating a community. It had less to do with knowing which shirts are good or not, since we print on demand, we could literally add every shirt to our catalog and just print all day long. Yes we wanted to build a catalog that our clients would like (mostly because we didn't really know who they would be) and we didn't have a perfectly clear direction of where our "brand" should go. We also have our Masters league where we do curate art directly from artists that we really love. (does that mean we grab one ball?) I agree with all of your points and Aubrey and I have plans to do just that with another venture (at some point) but for now we are very happy with the community and catalog we are building. Also remember, McDonald's built a business model once that is still copied to this day and new franchises succeed even now based one many of the same ideas that were created then. I will agree overall that there does seem to be a downturn in voting but I also think it has something to do with the economy. My guess is that people don't have as much money to spend on T-shirts so they don't go on the site (mostly to not be tempted). 39321 Post 2009-06-11T14:04:00-04:00 1147711 12933 2009-06-11T14:04:39-04:00 <blockquote><cite>legacyborn said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>steven said:</cite> Personally, I understand that the allure to business owners is to create interest and gauge how well a design will sell before printing it, but I never understand why they all follow the threadless model and don't just grab their balls and say 'I want to work with THAT guy', buy a design and go for it. If you want to start a clothing line then do it. There's too many threadless clones out there now. It's great that DBH ran with it, and no offence to most others (shirtfight/teeinvaders/etc) as some of them are visually doing a great job, but the saturation of that model means that in the long term, most of them will struggle to last. I'd rather just see these entreprenuers just start a clothing company and do it the way most of us designers would like to. Release a shirt each week, but curate it and offer good money to attract the good guys. I don't think that's been done yet has it?</blockquote> Aubrey and I started FMT as a design community because we loved the idea of creating a community. It had less to do with knowing which shirts are good or not, since we print on demand, we could literally add every shirt to our catalog and just print all day long. Yes we wanted to build a catalog that our clients would like (mostly because we didn't really know who they would be) and we didn't have a perfectly clear direction of where our "brand" should go. We also have our Masters league where we do curate art directly from artists that we really love. (does that mean we grab one ball?) I agree with all of your points and Aubrey and I have plans to do just that with another venture (at some point) but for now we are very happy with the community and catalog we are building. Also remember, McDonald's built a business model once that is still copied to this day and new franchises succeed even now based one many of the same ideas that were created then. I will agree overall that there does seem to be a downturn in voting but I also think it has something to do with the economy. My guess is that people don't have as much money to spend on T-shirts so they don't go on the site (mostly to not be tempted).</blockquote> thanks for taking the time to comment, you make some awesome points. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T14:08:48-04:00 1147751 2991 2009-06-11T14:08:48-04:00 As an aside to this conversation, I personally think that all competition sites could take a leaf out of ABT's book in terms of transparency. I love the fact that you can see what scores people have given you. That would put paid to people blowing smoke up your ass, telling you they love your design and then giving you a 1. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T14:21:24-04:00 1147871 2734 2009-06-11T14:21:24-04:00 I'm wondering how much of the lower voting is from the Shirt.Woot effect- since in their contests, literally anyone has a chance to win (independent of quality of work, at times). Why vote on the work of other artists when you yourself can enter and possibly win, even if you haven't got the level of talent or training as the other sites sometimes seem to require? Why vote on a site where it commonly takes months to know if the shirt you like won? Why vote if the winning shirt costs more than you can afford to spend (Woot is $10 vs. the $18+ norm)? As a data point, the <a href="http://shirt.woot.com/Friends.aspx?k=8967">last winner</a> of Woot's contest had 1092 votes. Bear in mind that this number only represents people who voted in favor of the winning design- many, many more voters looked at the entries but may have favored a different design. (And that's not even an exceptional total- the week before had a <a href="http://shirt.woot.com/Friends.aspx?k=8943">winner</a> that garnered 1453 votes) It might be interesting to think of this in terms of what Woot is doing that other sites are not, since their number of voters appears to be higher than most others, and hasn't experienced a visible dip. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T14:30:46-04:00 1147981 2228 2009-06-11T14:30:46-04:00 <blockquote><cite>daleedwinmurray said:</cite> As an aside to this conversation, I personally think that all competition sites could take a leaf out of ABT's book in terms of transparency. I love the fact that you can see what scores people have given you. That would put paid to people blowing smoke up your ass, telling you they love your design and then giving you a 1.</blockquote> Agreed. ABT has balls. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T14:32:45-04:00 1148011 2991 2009-06-11T14:32:45-04:00 I have a threadless profile, but not one at DBH, teextile, woot, etc. So I only vote on threadless. There are tons of designs, so I mainly vote on those who link to their designs from emptees. I vote on all threadless designs from <a href="http://www.emptees.com/posts/3606-vote-for-me-official-thread-for-all-design-voting-contests">this thread</a> and all FM 365 designs. I don't go through the threadless subs and vote on all of them anymore, there's too many, and most of them I give a 1 or 0 anyways. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T14:39:58-04:00 1148061 10311 2009-06-11T14:39:58-04:00 <blockquote><cite>jimiyo said:</cite> Too many submissions is my guess. We've made a decision recently to reject more. We will feel more heat from angry artists DEMANDING to know why, but it's not fun to wade through...</blockquote> That's a good thing, I wish threadless woul do the same but they seem to lower their standards more and more, every day there is more shit to be voted on and more people turned off by it. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T14:47:33-04:00 1148141 9179 2009-06-11T14:47:33-04:00 As a new and very small design community/contest site, I've tried my best *not* to reject submissions unless they don't fall within the weekly theme. My reasoning for this is that in my eyes these types of sites *initially* started out as something more than "pick what shirt we should print" sites. There's an aspect of getting your designs out there for your peers and the buying public to comment on your work, that's feedback worth its weight in gold if you are an artist looking to improve yourself. The more feedback you get, plus the fact that there is a competitive spirit, forces the artist to step up their game. Of course Threadless and DBH have gotten very large and it naturally becomes counter-productive to force their community to wade through 100s of submissions, so I get why DBH is working towards a "curator filter" on incoming submissions. I ask you guys...what are the really important features for voting? Is it to quickly vote on as many designs as you can right from the thumbnail view like DBH? Or is it to glance at the thumbnails, pick the ones that compel you to click on, vote, and leave comments/critiques on the design? I personally wouldn't be concerned about the drop in voting numbers. Blame it on the economy, blame it on more and more submissions...whatever. But in the end, great art is great art, and it will be judged appropriately. All that being said, we have a ton of things in my developer's queue to upgrade on ShirtFight. He just added the ability for you to check out your voting results (number of votes and average score) on your past contest submissions (viewable only by the artist), and in the next day or so you will be able to see a live tally of # of votes per entry. I encourage you guys to check out the <a href="http://www.shirtfight.com/vote">voting section</a> of my site and let me know if there's anything fundamentally missing. I'm more than happy to throw it on the developer's shoulders :D 39321 Post 2009-06-11T15:10:54-04:00 1148401 11937 2009-06-11T15:10:54-04:00 Damn i'm one wordy mofo :) 39321 Post 2009-06-11T15:11:16-04:00 1148411 11937 2009-06-11T15:11:16-04:00 I don't know if I'm a typical ShirtFight voter, but I tend to only vote on the ones I like, and those all get 5s. To me, just voting +1 makes more sense than a rating 1-5. How much I like it isn't important, whether or not I might buy it is. Also voting lower than 3 makes me feel like an asshole. So I try to avoid that, lol. And since not everything merits over a 3, that means not voting on everything. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T15:20:23-04:00 1148501 2228 2009-06-11T15:20:23-04:00 Don't get me wrong, I think most of the comp sites are doing a decent job, and trying to push the model forward - FMT and ABT are cases in point - but I'd love to see someone run with another model too. I think a site with weekly releases could still foster a community based on who they want to see do shirts. Think Emptees but with a sales aspect to it. Am I the only one who thinks this would be sweet? 39321 Post 2009-06-11T15:23:10-04:00 1148571 71 2009-06-11T15:23:10-04:00 <blockquote><cite>mj00 said:</cite> I don't know if I'm a typical ShirtFight voter, but I tend to only vote on the ones I like, and those all get 5s. To me, just voting +1 makes more sense than a rating 1-5. How much I like it isn't important, whether or not I might buy it is. Also voting lower than 3 makes me feel like an asshole. So I try to avoid that, lol. And since not everything merits over a 3, that means not voting on everything.</blockquote> I think that's human nature...I mean that's pretty much how I vote on Threadless. 5 = yeah it's perfect i would buy that, 4 = it's really good/clever, maybe not for me, 3 = it's got potential but could use some work (and then I try to comment as to what improvements could be made But I'm not an artist myself, so I try to keep my design opinions to a minimum LOL Also MJ, aren't you in Barrington? We need to meet up one day! 39321 Post 2009-06-11T15:24:48-04:00 1148581 11937 2009-06-11T15:25:10-04:00 Oh wow that is a cool Feature Mr. Fight. I like my numbers, thanks. I don't vote on threadless as often as I should. It's a ton to go through, and without the paypal I can't buy any of them anyway. For me it's just a way to help my fellow shirt people get some cash. I was raised not to ask for anything, so that's one of the reasons why my numbers are low. I guess I need to get over that and do some proper whoring. Also all of my shirt fight subs have been way late and mostly off topic. Plus with the continuing printing fiasco, I have been two bummed to much of anything. I think fans need to be pretty hardcore to keep up with it all, there are thousands of shirt sites and more opening shop everyday, it may be to much to handle. I own more shirts then is probably healthy, if everyone shopped like that then things would be better, but I think normal people just buy things every now and again. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T15:28:59-04:00 1148651 506 2009-06-11T15:28:59-04:00 I know when submitting designs that the words 'contest' and 'voting' just plays to a designers ego and makes it ok to do a bunch of spec work. Voting only serves to give them a better idea of what might sell but ultimately voting doesn't win the contest. That's why I don't beg at all or vote frequently. I'm also not into becoming part of a community on the auspices of getting votes. I think Jimiyo is right to want to reject more submissions, ultimately they know what they're looking for anyways. 'Contest Sites' should just be more honest about looking for quality designs and being interested in the consumers opinion of them rather than the idea that anybody can win if they just get the votes. Sorry to sound so negative! 39321 Post 2009-06-11T15:29:28-04:00 1148661 2330 2009-06-11T15:33:18-04:00 <blockquote><cite>steven said:</cite> Don't get me wrong, I think most of the comp sites are doing a decent job, and trying to push the model forward - FMT and ABT are cases in point - but I'd love to see someone run with another model too. I think a site with weekly releases could still foster a community based on who they want to see do shirts. Think Emptees but with a sales aspect to it. Am I the only one who thinks this would be sweet?</blockquote> This intrigues me...continue with your idea. One thing to consider about contest sites and voting...think of it from a site owner's point of view (like myself). You need traffic to sell shirts. You can have the best shirts in the world, but if no one knows about them...you ain't sellin' them. I'm sure a lot of folks here who have started their own clothing lines have felt this pain. One major advantage of the traditional threadless model is that it provides immense interactivity and "stickiness" for the community. People in general like to vote on things and voice their opinion. If you give them partial responsibility in choosing the weekly/daily winner, all the better. And Josh, while you're correct that votes don't solely determine the winner, it does give site owners an idea of what the public likes. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T15:37:02-04:00 1148801 11937 2009-06-11T15:37:02-04:00 This is a great thread btw Wotto, thank you for starting it. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T15:38:42-04:00 1148851 11937 2009-06-11T15:38:42-04:00 for me it I just been too busy with work to vote like I used to...In the past I'd vote every morning even double checking the back pages in cased I missed something (I usually did) but now I'd be lucky to vote even once a week. Also like Jimiyo said waaay to many crap designs to have to sift through... why you your design rejected? because it looks like Live Trace and MS Paint had a baby and that's the afterbirth! note: to those the post their Threadless links in the tees section could you please wait until it's actually up for scoring before advertising it? What usually happens is I'll comment here on a tee I really like but by the time the artwork is approved I'd have forgotten all about it and I do so hate missing out on voting for designs I love. PS- Uneetees is a frickin' wasteland now...did something happen are you guys mad at the or something? 39321 Post 2009-06-11T15:52:04-04:00 1149031 8199 2009-06-11T15:52:54-04:00 <blockquote><cite>ShirtFight.com said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>steven said:</cite> Don't get me wrong, I think most of the comp sites are doing a decent job, and trying to push the model forward - FMT and ABT are cases in point - but I'd love to see someone run with another model too. I think a site with weekly releases could still foster a community based on who they want to see do shirts. Think Emptees but with a sales aspect to it. Am I the only one who thinks this would be sweet?</blockquote> This intrigues me...continue with your idea. One thing to consider about contest sites and voting...think of it from a site owner's point of view (like myself). You need traffic to sell shirts. You can have the best shirts in the world, but if no one knows about them...you ain't sellin' them. I'm sure a lot of folks here who have started their own clothing lines have felt this pain. One major advantage of the traditional threadless model is that it provides immense interactivity and "stickiness" for the community. People in general like to vote on things and voice their opinion. If you give them partial responsibility in choosing the weekly/daily winner, all the better. And Josh, while you're correct that votes don't solely determine the winner, it does give site owners an idea of what the public likes.</blockquote> Well, essentially my thinking is that if a community based site like Emptees decided to adopt a model similar to that of the Threadless Select line - no voting, just get in art by top notch guys - it would be somewhere that I'd be more likely to fork out money on every week. I would assume that the main reason people would come would still be for the community, but there'd be an added dimension to the whole thing too. The community is here, so how difficult could it be to take advantage of that and provide them with shirts by their favourite artists as well as introducing them to new ones? Emptees already has a tshirt community only rivalled and bettered by threadless so it's something it could easily pull off IMO. Maybe I'm getting older but the voting sites just don't do it for me as much now and the threadless select line wows me more than anything on any other site right now. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T15:52:56-04:00 1149061 71 2009-06-11T15:52:56-04:00 <blockquote> And Josh, while you're correct that votes don't solely determine the winner, it does give site owners an idea of what the public likes.</blockquote> "..only serves to give them a better idea of what might sell but ultimately voting doesn’t win the contest." Just putting it out there incase anyone still believes the hype. I think American Idols' model is good. The emphasis should be on voting for the best as chosen by the site. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T15:54:02-04:00 1149081 2330 2009-06-11T15:54:02-04:00 I think there will be a paradigm shift here shortly. the contest sites have a great side effect. It takes a mediocre designer and makes them pretty fucking good. I have seen a number of situations where this has occurred. Where the desire to win makes the artist work so hard to improve their skills. Where 3 years ago the top notch designers were a dozen you could name off the top of your head. Now there are 10X that number churning out excellent designs. SO my anticipation is that there will be more of the curated selected works by these now skilled folks and the premier shirts will come from there. Then the competition side will deflate a bit but still be a training ground so to speak for folks to get their nuts and build some skill 2 cents 39321 Post 2009-06-11T15:54:47-04:00 1149101 7336 2009-06-11T15:55:26-04:00 I vote what I would want to win, I don't post comments, only when I really like a design, but this time it really pissed me off with all the special contest pouring all over DBH, I don't even want to check the new ones anymore, I just see those faces over and over again I think the special contest submission should have a separate page, I have been like on page 11 after 3 days...nobody comes there anymore :( 39321 Post 2009-06-11T15:59:19-04:00 1149161 3912 2009-06-11T15:59:19-04:00 <blockquote><cite>isaboa said:</cite> I think there will be a paradigm shift here shortly. the contest sites have a great side effect. It takes a mediocre designer and makes them pretty fucking good. I have seen a number of situations where this has occurred. Where the desire to win makes the artist work so hard to improve their skills. Where 3 years ago the top notch designers were a dozen you could name off the top of your head. Now there are 10X that number churning out excellent designs. SO my anticipation is that there will be more of the curated selected works by these now skilled folks and the premier shirts will come from there. Then the competition side will deflate a bit but still be a training ground so to speak for folks to get their nuts and build some skill 2 cents</blockquote> Good point. It does make you want to get better. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T16:05:54-04:00 1149241 2330 2009-06-11T16:05:54-04:00 <blockquote><cite>ShirtFight.com said:</cite> This is a great thread btw Wotto, thank you for starting it.</blockquote> no problem. This is all good stuff that I hope will develop the industry and sites. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T16:29:40-04:00 1149521 2991 2009-06-11T16:29:40-04:00 <blockquote><cite>isaboa said:</cite> I think there will be a paradigm shift here shortly. the contest sites have a great side effect. It takes a mediocre designer and makes them pretty fucking good. I have seen a number of situations where this has occurred. Where the desire to win makes the artist work so hard to improve their skills. Where 3 years ago the top notch designers were a dozen you could name off the top of your head. Now there are 10X that number churning out excellent designs. SO my anticipation is that there will be more of the curated selected works by these now skilled folks and the premier shirts will come from there. Then the competition side will deflate a bit but still be a training ground so to speak for folks to get their nuts and build some skill 2 cents</blockquote> ISA's 2 cents is worth 20 dollars. 39321 Post 2009-06-11T16:30:04-04:00 1149531 2991 2009-06-11T16:30:04-04:00 I owe a lot to these competition based sites. Esp to Threadless, where I started. I believe the voting system is a very very old model by now, and everyone who even think of duplicating it need to understand there are so many people who is doing it. As far as creating community, I think people should start to think outside the box, rather than just following this voting 1-5 system. For example: cameesa I also agree with Steven; in this saturated situation, a start up t-shirt company should really focus more on creating brand, image, and direction, rather than creating community. Get a designer, and get your stuff together. Example: Linty Fresh 39321 Post 2009-06-12T11:10:50-04:00 1159371 2182 2009-06-12T11:11:24-04:00 <i>I vote for the designs that I’m really into but the whole begging for votes thing has made me not want to as much. I’m not sure the votes even matter anymore these days..</i> I can assure you that at Threadless, the votes always have and always will matter :) 39321 Post 2009-06-12T11:40:40-04:00 1159801 111 2009-06-12T11:40:40-04:00 <blockquote><cite>jeffrey said:</cite> <i>I vote for the designs that I’m really into but the whole begging for votes thing has made me not want to as much. I’m not sure the votes even matter anymore these days..</i> I can assure you that at Threadless, the votes always have and always will matter :)</blockquote> Thanks for commenting Jeffrey and yes I personally think threadless do use the votes, there are just so many amazing designs there and obviously you cannot print them all. I believe you are looking at solutions to use up some of those unsung beauties. 39321 Post 2009-06-12T11:43:02-04:00 1159861 2991 2009-06-12T11:43:48-04:00 <blockquote><cite>wotto said:</cite> some great points being made here. Hope some of the sites are reading this.</blockquote> Totally agree. 39321 Post 2009-06-12T11:44:56-04:00 1159881 111 2009-06-12T11:44:56-04:00 <blockquote><cite>radiomode said:</cite> I owe a lot to these competition based sites. Esp to Threadless, where I started. I believe the voting system is a very very old model by now, and everyone who even think of duplicating it need to understand there are so many people who is doing it. As far as creating community, I think people should start to think outside the box, rather than just following this voting 1-5 system. For example: cameesa I also agree with Steven; in this saturated situation, a start up t-shirt company should really focus more on creating brand, image, and direction, rather than creating community. Get a designer, and get your stuff together. Example: Linty Fresh</blockquote> 100% Agree 39321 Post 2009-06-12T11:45:12-04:00 1159891 2991 2009-06-12T11:45:12-04:00 <blockquote><cite>wotto said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>jeffrey said:</cite> <i>I vote for the designs that I’m really into but the whole begging for votes thing has made me not want to as much. I’m not sure the votes even matter anymore these days..</i> I can assure you that at Threadless, the votes always have and always will matter :)</blockquote> Thanks for commenting Jeffrey and yes I personally think threadless do use the votes, there are just so many amazing designs there and obviously you cannot print them all. I believe you are looking at solutions to use up some of those unsung beauties.</blockquote> We're working on it. It's a constant challenge, really. It's crazy - the amount of designs that come in that are printable is like 1000% more than a few years ago. Before it was more like finding the needle in the haystack. Now it's more like a giant pile of needles. Everyone is so friggin' talented and the bar has been raised so high which has successfully increased the quality of a lot more of the designs coming in. It's a good problem to have, but that doesn't make it any less of a problem. You know? This really is a great thread, and there really are tons of good points being made. I hope everyone knows that we're working our asses off to keep things as awesome as they always have been for the design community that participates on Threadless. 39321 Post 2009-06-12T11:50:54-04:00 1160041 111 2009-06-12T11:50:54-04:00 <blockquote><cite>jeffrey said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>wotto said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>jeffrey said:</cite> <i>I vote for the designs that I’m really into but the whole begging for votes thing has made me not want to as much. I’m not sure the votes even matter anymore these days..</i> I can assure you that at Threadless, the votes always have and always will matter :)</blockquote> Thanks for commenting Jeffrey and yes I personally think threadless do use the votes, there are just so many amazing designs there and obviously you cannot print them all. I believe you are looking at solutions to use up some of those unsung beauties.</blockquote> We're working on it. It's a constant challenge, really. It's crazy - the amount of designs that come in that are printable is like 1000% more than a few years ago. Before it was more like finding the needle in the haystack. Now it's more like a giant pile of needles. Everyone is so friggin' talented and the bar has been raised so high which has successfully increased the quality of a lot more of the designs coming in. It's a good problem to have, but that doesn't make it any less of a problem. You know? This really is a great thread, and there really are tons of good points being made. I hope everyone knows that we're working our asses off to keep things as awesome as they always have been for the design community that participates on Threadless.</blockquote> Well that's a neat problem to have. Threadless has always been top of the pile and unfortunately your model has been mirrored by too many. Also I think threadless has a part to play in pushing artists, take me and ISA and a whole pile of other people we have pushed and pushed to get printed. It's like a school of Art with a million tutors for support and guidance, maybe over the top? Take a look at my first sub and then one of my last and you will see what Threadless can do. Ok enough brown nosing, lol. I like the introduction of Alumni pics and staff pics and I believe you are doing all u can to remain innovative. Thanks again for commenting. Oh and I expect to see you sporting my wotto tee too Mr. ;) 39321 Post 2009-06-12T11:59:38-04:00 1160201 2991 2009-06-12T12:00:39-04:00 I used to vote on Threadless everyday, but the number of subs running at once is so high now that I mostly don't bother. In other threads it's been mentioned that maybe there needs to be a more rigorous screening process. When I do actually vote, I'm always shocked by some of the entries that made it through approval. It also might be cool to add some different filters. Like if there was a way you could add someone as a friend on Threadless and then you could only view the entries up that were done by your friends. This would make it less overwhelming for the voter and even if you don't vote for EVERYTHING, some votes are better than none. Also, maybe some of the top picks from the staff or the top popular/highest scoring could be shown on a sidebar to make sure that the n00bs don't get overlooked. 39321 Post 2009-06-12T12:02:27-04:00 1160241 7761 2009-06-12T12:02:27-04:00 <blockquote><cite>valorandvellum said:</cite> I used to vote on Threadless everyday, but the number of subs running at once is so high now that I mostly don't bother. In other threads it's been mentioned that maybe there needs to be a more rigorous screening process. When I do actually vote, I'm always shocked by some of the entries that made it through approval. It also might be cool to add some different filters. Like if there was a way you could add someone as a friend on Threadless and then you could only view the entries up that were done by your friends. This would make it less overwhelming for the voter and even if you don't vote for EVERYTHING, some votes are better than none. Also, maybe some of the top picks from the staff or the top popular/highest scoring could be shown on a sidebar to make sure that the n00bs don't get overlooked.</blockquote> I think there's other ways of making sure that all of the designs get their time to shine. Personally, I'm not a big fan of showing people which designs are currently scoring the highest, because I think that skews people's votes and doesn't make for a leveled playing field. We really do want to try to leave a good majority of the promotion up to the designer. 39321 Post 2009-06-12T12:08:41-04:00 1160341 111 2009-06-12T12:08:41-04:00 yeah you turned me into a whore, lol ^ 39321 Post 2009-06-12T12:11:17-04:00 1160401 2991 2009-06-12T12:11:17-04:00 Haha, well it's a little known secret that this guy is actually the one running Threadless... <img src="http://www.xavierpopy.com/albums/3/bishop%20don%20magic%20juan.jpg"> 39321 Post 2009-06-12T12:16:28-04:00 1160501 111 2009-06-12T12:16:28-04:00 I must admit I used to vote much more in the past, I agree to hyperhyphen having a problem with getting lost on page 11 at DBH in a huge bunch of KISS designs... and threadless has too many designs to vote at a time... So I only vote when I see something from a friend from here or elsewhere... 39321 Post 2009-06-12T12:17:44-04:00 1160551 519 2009-06-12T12:17:44-04:00 threadless is good people 39321 Post 2009-06-12T12:24:55-04:00 1160761 7336 2009-06-12T12:24:55-04:00 I just spent half an hour voting on threadless. I was using ctrl + tab to cycle through three tabs on firefox to eliminate loadtime so I could vote on more designs. I ended up voting on about 230 designs. I think I voted two $5s, five-ten 4s, probably twenty 3s, and all the rest were 2s and below. It doesn't really seem like a good use of my time when most of the designs I vote on I voted a 0 or a 1 because they won't get printed anyway. 39321 Post 2009-06-13T00:05:54-04:00 1168191 10311 2009-06-13T00:05:54-04:00 I am almost at 50,000 votes over at threadless after that it will be a long hiatus from voting.....it really hurts my head these days to vote over there....even though I want to.....but I have to stop 39321 Post 2009-06-13T00:19:12-04:00 1168231 3021 2009-06-13T00:19:12-04:00 ^I used to vote on everything there, I did it for about a year (30k+ subs), but the overload of bad designs broke me down. Sometimes I miss my voting sprees and try to start again to find the hidden gems but get quickly turned off. If they tightened their quality control I would probably start doing it again and I'm sure more people would. And Joe's comment is wise and true, I've improved so much thanks to threadless, not only the competitivity but the whole community aspect, I love it there even though they don't print me anymore, it's like crack! 39321 Post 2009-06-13T03:34:15-04:00 1169051 9179 2009-06-13T03:34:49-04:00 And on DBH the themed contests always bring too much shit, seems that every ______________ fan thinks he can be a designer and design the ultimate ___________ tee designs and the site gets overflooded with sub-par "designs". When I go to vote there I usually just use the regular contest filter and I tend to find better designsin less time. 39321 Post 2009-06-13T03:37:13-04:00 1169071 9179 2009-06-13T03:37:13-04:00 Check out this thing I am working on ... <a href="http://www.threadless.com/powerscore">http://www.threadless.com/powerscore</a> I think it may help increase scoring ... makes it a lot easier and feel a bit more like a game. 39321 Post 2009-06-24T15:27:20-04:00 1314931 624 2009-06-24T15:27:20-04:00 <blockquote><cite>skaw said:</cite> Check out this thing I am working on ... <a href="http://www.threadless.com/powerscore">http://www.threadless.com/powerscore</a> I think it may help increase scoring ... makes it a lot easier and feel a bit more like a game.</blockquote> And then there was light.... 39321 Post 2009-06-24T15:31:45-04:00 1315021 2991 2009-06-24T15:31:45-04:00 powerscore feature is BRILLIANT needs iphone app 39321 Post 2009-06-24T15:41:26-04:00 1315211 7336 2009-06-24T15:41:26-04:00 <blockquote><cite>isaboa said:</cite> powerscore feature is BRILLIANT needs iphone app</blockquote> yesssss...i want an iphone app for ShirtFight too! I wonder how hard it would be to write one. 39321 Post 2009-06-24T15:44:38-04:00 1315281 11937 2009-06-24T15:44:38-04:00 <blockquote><cite>skaw said:</cite> Check out this thing I am working on ... <a href="http://www.threadless.com/powerscore">http://www.threadless.com/powerscore</a> I think it may help increase scoring ... makes it a lot easier and feel a bit more like a game.</blockquote> My god, that is so much better - I am actually looking forward to scoring with that system 39321 Post 2009-06-24T15:57:48-04:00 1315501 2734 2009-06-24T15:57:48-04:00 I have a question for the designers. is $ the motivating factor behind your design submissions or the accolades that come with having a t-shirt printed by whatever company? I know I may be asking the obvious but sometimes i'm not sure if everyone is strictly in it for the money or as a means to build their portfolios. 39321 Post 2009-06-26T20:50:32-04:00 1355351 12224 2009-06-26T20:50:32-04:00