A lot of negative vibes around here lately. I know someone suggested a members fee to stop the fucktards. Not a bad idea. Let's discuss it. *Ω <img src="http://www.villainouscompany.com/vcblog/archives/town%20hall%20meeting%20hall.jpg"> * Please consider if you are a fucktard before you add your comment, thanks. Ω Wonders about his own behaviour and considers his level of fucktardedness. 2009-10-16T10:02:10-04:00 439 2009-08-25T12:56:12-04:00 true 0 69321 false false 2991 2991 1 2009-11-21T10:35:58-05:00 6040 Unfortunately it's a lot of the guys I really respect who seem to have fled :( 69321 Post 2009-08-25T12:57:41-04:00 2163441 2991 2009-08-25T12:57:41-04:00 members (small, very small) fee isn't the worst idea in the world. that would at least keep the super shitty posts out. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T12:58:17-04:00 2163461 14 2009-08-25T12:58:17-04:00 ill pay 70 bucks a month. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T12:58:51-04:00 2163481 2870 2009-08-25T12:58:51-04:00 Even $1 fee would help cut the fluff. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T12:59:04-04:00 2163491 5738 2009-08-25T12:59:23-04:00 so what's the issue, whats upsetting everyone? 69321 Post 2009-08-25T12:59:35-04:00 2163511 2991 2009-08-25T12:59:35-04:00 could go toward a donation or something.. or a jurred tee art show... hah 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:00:16-04:00 2163541 2870 2009-08-25T13:00:16-04:00 i think the main issues were... - WAH MY SHITTY TEE AIN'T GETTIN ENUF LUVS posts - super accusatory rip threads - mumfauxs - levi's poor advertising choices - edgil 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:01:54-04:00 2163551 14 2009-08-25T13:01:54-04:00 Think back to about a year ago Wotto. Once in a while you'd get a shitty tee post, but besides that... most of what came out was gold... new and unique. People had their own individual styles and everything was exciting. Now, the vast majority of what is posted is crap... the tee pages move so fast its just about impossible to keep up. People don't take the time to understand how the comminuty works before they go and post... and just about any shred of decency is gone. Granted, I was a noob when I joined, and my first tees reflected that... but the comminuty really helped out. Now there are so many new people begging for help and advice without really doing any research first, its sickening. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:03:23-04:00 2163581 2329 2009-08-25T13:03:23-04:00 The bottom line for me has been that the signal to noise ratio is favoring the latter, not the former. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:04:20-04:00 2163621 5738 2009-08-25T13:04:20-04:00 i think one thing that will help a whole bunch is one tee, per person, per day. that will help the tees page immensely. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:05:35-04:00 2163631 14 2009-08-25T13:05:35-04:00 - WAH MY SHITTY TEE AIN’T GETTIN ENUF LUVS posts Well yes - super accusatory rip threads hummm yeah seems to be all some people post about - mumfauxs Unfortunately alawys going to happen when you have such a fucking awesome style but yeah sucks balls. - levi’s poor advertising choices Ohh man he can get shit upside down sometimes but the guy aint no menace, imo. - edgil one of the reasons I am glad this place exists to weed these people out. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:06:03-04:00 2163661 2991 2009-08-25T13:06:03-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Frenden said:</cite> Even $1 fee would help cut the fluff.</blockquote> 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:06:13-04:00 2163671 11707 2009-08-25T13:06:13-04:00 You'd have to code that limit in or else no one will listen. And I'd def pay a dollar for this place. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:06:14-04:00 2163681 2329 2009-08-25T13:06:42-04:00 Yeah Rusty I kind of agree BUT.... Emptees is an incredible place and has catapulted my design career into places it wouldn't maybe have gone and that is down to us all. We make it what it is. Truth be told I think we are all a little tightly wound when it comes to this place and we try too hard to control it. We need to silence the idiots, not respond to them. They would move on. It is gaining in popularity and that always draws out the shit. The people here, probably before my time are what makes it. They leave, the place goes to shit. A fee is a good idea. We could contribute a fair fee. Put it towards an emptees calendar, yearly tee and an art show each year. Could be glorious. Who's with me?.....lol 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:12:12-04:00 2163781 2991 2009-08-25T13:12:29-04:00 Fee to tee, maybe? IE, if you're here lurking, that's fine. But to post tees and comments, you have to pay? 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:13:59-04:00 2163831 5738 2009-08-25T13:13:59-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Frenden said:</cite> Fee to tee, maybe? IE, if you're here lurking, that's fine. But to post tees and comments, you have to pay?</blockquote> i like that idea, someone email indie labs if you're serious, its hard to know when they are paying attention. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:15:28-04:00 2163871 1146 2009-08-25T13:15:28-04:00 Yeah I like that Frenden, now would you charge this to already existing members or just new ones? 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:15:49-04:00 2163881 2329 2009-08-25T13:16:08-04:00 I say we do a $1.00 a month fee. Proceeds go to Print Tee Shirt of The Month :) I think Emptees is amazing if you utilize it like Greg Abbott does. Peep his profile -- Wow! That is definitely worth something if you can use Emptees for a Portfolio page as well. Emptees is Endless in Value :) & The douchers who ruin it will cheap out on the $1.00 a month fee. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:16:00-04:00 2163891 13561 2009-08-25T13:16:46-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Frenden said:</cite> Fee to tee, maybe? IE, if you're here lurking, that's fine. But to post tees and comments, you have to pay?</blockquote> Good point. The lurkers are normally the people who end up commissioning artists, right? Hey Ray grab a hold of GM I'd like to hear his opinion on this. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:16:11-04:00 2163921 2991 2009-08-25T13:16:11-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Frenden said:</cite> Even $1 fee would help cut the fluff.</blockquote> and could be used to make some more emptees collabs or something for charity. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:16:16-04:00 2163931 2879 2009-08-25T13:16:16-04:00 I wouldn't object to paying a membership fee. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:16:22-04:00 2163941 1056 2009-08-25T13:16:22-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Frenden said:</cite> Fee to tee, maybe? IE, if you're here lurking, that's fine. But to post tees and comments, you have to pay?</blockquote> yes. <blockquote><cite>dobi said:</cite> i think one thing that will help a whole bunch is one tee, per person, per day. that will help the tees page immensely.</blockquote> yes. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:17:33-04:00 2163971 1106 2009-08-25T13:17:33-04:00 Dobi, you should sticky this... we need to get Indie Labs in here to see what they think. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:18:46-04:00 2164001 2329 2009-08-25T13:18:46-04:00 i like these ideas folks.. i am game 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:18:50-04:00 2164011 2870 2009-08-25T13:18:50-04:00 These sound like some great ideas, guys. *wink, wink* 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:20:38-04:00 2164061 10680 2009-08-25T13:20:38-04:00 gooood idea, im down. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:20:59-04:00 2164071 35211 2009-08-25T13:20:59-04:00 $1/month fee, 1 Tee a day. The only thing this will really screw up are second accounts, which could be a good and bad thing. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:21:51-04:00 2164081 2329 2009-08-25T13:21:51-04:00 1 tee a day... that is nuts. Unless you want super pros only that will not fly 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:24:41-04:00 2164121 2712 2009-08-25T13:24:41-04:00 Dobi, sort this out. It´s totally do able. Let´s clean up the town! We´ll all chip in a plant flowers and paint over the shit grafitti (Nugget). I get loads of work from this site and have noticed the decline in work is proportional to amount of a holes on here. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:25:13-04:00 2164131 2879 2009-08-25T13:25:13-04:00 <blockquote><cite>jaynajaynajayna said:</cite> 1 tee a day... that is nuts. Unless you want super pros only that will not fly</blockquote> Honestly though, no more than 3... maybe 1 is too low. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:26:29-04:00 2164151 2329 2009-08-25T13:26:29-04:00 <blockquote><cite>jaynajaynajayna said:</cite> 1 tee a day... that is nuts. Unless you want super pros only that will not fly</blockquote> 1 tee per person silly. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:26:35-04:00 2164171 14 2009-08-25T13:26:35-04:00 Ooooh a sticky....it's been a while. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:26:49-04:00 2164201 6884 2009-08-25T13:26:49-04:00 ok, i stickied this, lets keep the conversation serious and try to drum up some ideas. i'd like to see this community get along better. also, i can't do shit other than moderate comments / edit the same way anyone else can, i just have control of everything. not the backend or anything. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:27:03-04:00 2164231 14 2009-08-25T13:27:51-04:00 I think there needs to be a little more control in the talk section too... like how we stamped out that dumb thread real quick earlier. A lightly moderated forum is fine, joking is fine, but people abuse it. I think someone mentioned an FAQ in the top bar too, may not be a bad idea. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:28:42-04:00 2164261 2329 2009-08-25T13:31:24-04:00 I'd just like to say that I think Emptees is still awesome. No, I wasn't around in the "glory days" but this site has helped me so much in the short time I've been here. No site/forum/community stays the same. Emptees has and will continue to evolve. People will come and go. Some of the Emptees star artists will eventually fade out but new ones will rise up and take their place. That being said, yes I do think a fee (Even a tiny, one time fee) will keep the trolls out. Your average troll isn't going to want to pay to be a dick when they can do that for free everywhere else. I wanted to say this earlier in some of the other similar themed threads - The only thing that would be the downfall of Emptees would be you guys, the regulars, giving up on it. You guys are the ones with the power to make Emptees awesome or lame. Not the trolls, or the lame noobs, or the rippers. They really have little impact on this site. It's the regulars who post all their awesome artwork that makes this site amazing. So keep at it, or participate even more, and this site will always be golden. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:29:02-04:00 2164271 8948 2009-08-25T13:29:02-04:00 I prefer a more zen approach where we co mingle with the fucktards. They are not going to go away. If I can convert a fucktard into a random douche I would rather do that then just try to ban people I don't like. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:31:41-04:00 2164321 506 2009-08-25T13:31:41-04:00 i think one thing that would keep me personally from getting annoyed at the talk section as frequently is appropriately titled subjects. Ill actually go in and change them a lot. These cliff hanger subject titles are a waste of people's time. i get you're trying to be cute and dont want people to pass up your thread, but i really believe that if you keep your header on point you'll get a lot less snarky comments from people. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:33:32-04:00 2164331 1146 2009-08-25T13:34:09-04:00 It would be great to have new people wait 72hours or so before their first new post gives them time to look around before being lazy and just posting a question 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:33:45-04:00 2164341 2552 2009-08-25T13:34:34-04:00 This is a good idea. But fee to tee isn't a good idea, i think it should be a few $ month, but have a cap on the limit, say 1 a day. The thing is, this will take a hell of alot of work on indie labs side. Lets hope they are down. OR! Make this site invite only to post, but you can lurk for free, so if a band or w/e comes along, they can check everyone out, but without the fear of spam+trolls. And if this goes ahead, you could have a "Invite please" mini-forum, where people post their portfolios/give a reason why they want an invite, and a mod, or a majority, can then invite them. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:33:53-04:00 2164351 5982 2009-08-25T13:33:53-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Mr.Stan Geek said:</cite> It would be great that new people have to wait 72hours or so before their first new post gives them time to look around before being lazy and just posting a question</blockquote> That. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:35:03-04:00 2164371 303 2009-08-25T13:35:03-04:00 <blockquote><cite>ExaltedByMark. said:</cite> I say we do a $1.00 a month fee. Proceeds go to Print Tee Shirt of The Month :) Emptees is Endless in Value :) & The douchers who ruin it will cheap out on the $1.00 a month fee.</blockquote> I think this is probably one of the best suggestions yet.. and the 1 tee per person too. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:35:26-04:00 2164381 10597 2009-08-25T13:35:26-04:00 I think a small fee is a good idea. I'm down for it. I need to start posting more tees myself. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:35:29-04:00 2164391 497 2009-08-25T13:35:29-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Callum_Green said:</cite> This is a good idea. But fee to tee isn't a good idea, i think it should be a few $ month, but have a cap on the limit, say 1 a day. The thing is, this will take a hell of alot of work on indie labs side. Lets hope they are down. OR! Make this site invite only to post, but you can lurk for free, so if a band or w/e comes along, they can check everyone out, but without the fear of spam+trolls. And if this goes ahead, you could have a "Invite please" mini-forum, where people post their portfolios/give a reason why they want an invite, and a mod, or a majority, can then invite them.</blockquote> that way of invite could work... though who would be the judges.. or would it be a community vote if they were in or out.. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:36:15-04:00 2164401 2870 2009-08-25T13:36:15-04:00 <blockquote><cite>derekdeal said:</cite> i think one thing that would keep me personally from getting annoyed at the talk section as frequently is appropriately titled subjects. Ill actually go in and change them a lot. These cliff hanger subject titles are a waste of people's time, i get you're trying to be cute and dont want people to pass up your thread, but i really believe that if you keep your header on point you'll get a lot less snarky comments from people.</blockquote> Yeah but then you ruin threads like this: http://emptees.com/posts/9980-seriously-guys http://emptees.com/posts/7429-its-thursday <blockquote><cite>downrodeo said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Mr.Stan Geek said:</cite> It would be great that new people have to wait 72hours or so before their first new post gives them time to look around before being lazy and just posting a question</blockquote> That.</blockquote> Awesome 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:36:32-04:00 2164411 2329 2009-08-25T13:37:45-04:00 im for fees but if it keeps tees like this from getting posted i will be extremely upset http://emptees.com/tees/101591-think-better 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:36:48-04:00 2164421 1146 2009-08-25T13:36:48-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Killer Napkins said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Callum_Green said:</cite> This is a good idea. But fee to tee isn't a good idea, i think it should be a few $ month, but have a cap on the limit, say 1 a day. The thing is, this will take a hell of alot of work on indie labs side. Lets hope they are down. OR! Make this site invite only to post, but you can lurk for free, so if a band or w/e comes along, they can check everyone out, but without the fear of spam+trolls. And if this goes ahead, you could have a "Invite please" mini-forum, where people post their portfolios/give a reason why they want an invite, and a mod, or a majority, can then invite them.</blockquote> that way of invite could work... though who would be the judges.. or would it be a community vote if they were in or out..</blockquote> You could have an: <img src="http://www.freewebs.com/frodoweb_89/elrondsrad3.jpg" /> Say, Derek, SWH, Dobi, You, ect, and if 3 or more said yes, they are in? 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:38:09-04:00 2164431 5982 2009-08-25T13:38:09-04:00 Way to complicated, a tee fee is better 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:39:10-04:00 2164441 2329 2009-08-25T13:39:10-04:00 Oh and after pressing the love button, have a pop-up that says "do you REALLY wan't to love this?" Applies for Quaker only. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:39:11-04:00 2164451 5982 2009-08-25T13:39:11-04:00 $1 fee and 1 tee per day is deff the way to go. DO IT! 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:39:59-04:00 2164461 8848 2009-08-25T13:39:59-04:00 <blockquote><cite>RustyEight said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>derekdeal said:</cite> i think one thing that would keep me personally from getting annoyed at the talk section as frequently is appropriately titled subjects. Ill actually go in and change them a lot. These cliff hanger subject titles are a waste of people's time, i get you're trying to be cute and dont want people to pass up your thread, but i really believe that if you keep your header on point you'll get a lot less snarky comments from people.</blockquote> Yeah but then you ruin threads like this: http://emptees.com/posts/9980-seriously-guys http://emptees.com/posts/7429-its-thursday </blockquote> yes, those threads are gold... but i think me and dobi can definitely anticipate whats going to be an awesome thread versus a spammy one. I think the author realizes the difference too. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:41:21-04:00 2164491 1146 2009-08-25T13:41:36-04:00 I dig all these ideas Id pay more than a $1 fee. We all can afford more than that. Id just like to see this place back to what it was when I first joined, because now I barely check this out anymore. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:41:25-04:00 2164501 5462 2009-08-25T13:41:25-04:00 I'm in favor of a one time fee, or annual even. But I think paying members are the ones who can Submit shirts, create and comment on threads, and submit/view resources. Non paying members Should be able to view, love, and comment on shirts, VIEW only for threads. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:41:31-04:00 2164511 35651 2009-08-25T13:41:31-04:00 This is really a brilliant site for what it is, the resources and sheer weight of inspiration is really worth it, i think the fee would help keep the regulars going. As a relativly new and unexpirenced member it really helps, the critiques, tips and just seeing other peoples work and talk helps a lot. It is very easy to think of every new member either as being good or a complete noob, but there are some of us still setting up and trying to establish ourselves, people like A Thousand Eyes Design, and Tom Neal are great examples of this, it should be encouraged to get new members, but not ones who are going to shit all over whats going right (Nugget). I feel the fee money is the perfect way to go, and could go well into producing an art book or bi-monthly zine of emptees based art & design and discussion, possibly exclusive Tees. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:41:41-04:00 2164531 9688 2009-08-25T13:41:41-04:00 $12 a year? I'd be down for that. An emptees logo tee and mug too please. A yearly tee would be so cool and a calendar. It would just support itself nicely. Maybe pay moderators? 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:41:43-04:00 2164541 2991 2009-08-25T13:41:43-04:00 i dont agree on one tee per day... 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:41:47-04:00 2164551 2870 2009-08-25T13:41:47-04:00 I know you don't have the power to do this but ima say it anyway. Make people watch an instructional video before their first post. "Do's and don't for noobz" or "how not to be dicknosed". It may cut down on the bullshit. I personally enjoy drama so I don't want ALL the dumb asses to leave. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:42:20-04:00 2164561 3934 2009-08-25T13:42:20-04:00 the worst posts are the ones that have one funny video usually from 2004 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:42:24-04:00 2164581 1486 2009-08-25T13:42:24-04:00 It's a behavioral issue. People get pounced on for asking simple questions, or for posting in the wrong place, or come in thinking they are the shit and are told they are not and get butthurt. It's been a while sense I have seen a warm welcome for any noobs. Maybe the 1 year olds here can stop being so defensive and learn to share Emptees with the noobs. Or are you talking about the hopeless fucktards that just don't care? If it's a hopeless fucktard just delete them, they are flawed people you can't talk to and need to leave the planet post hast. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:42:38-04:00 2164591 506 2009-08-25T13:42:38-04:00 I think this would be more of a development side of things, but the search function (i find) is really bad. It can be very very hard to find anything helpful. It tends to come up with tons of results, or none. I honestly think we'd find less problems with people asking questions if this functioned better. We must keep in mind that everybody starts somewhere, and this community needs to be open to the people who are willing to learn and become a valued part of the community. Basically, balance is needed so that it doesn't become elitist. I'd agree with the 1 tee a day thing.....or maybe you could pay a higher membership fee to have a higher allowance. I really don't think you should pay to submit a tee. And lastly, a stickied thread that outlines simple stuff to help you avoid being "flamed", like uploading an avatar before you start posting and not starting a dozen threads within 4 days of signing up. Ideas, i have some. <blockquote><cite>derekdeal said:</cite> im for fees but if it keeps tees like this from getting posted i will be extremely upset http://emptees.com/tees/101591-think-better</blockquote> lol I think it's a choice between all the shit with those tees involved, or going down the more professional route. I think the potential to change this site for the better is massive and very exciting. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:42:39-04:00 2164601 6884 2009-08-25T13:46:07-04:00 Who would need to submit more than one tee a day? (Greg abbot could have a special account that allows him to post up to 5 a day, lol) 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:43:57-04:00 2164621 2991 2009-08-25T13:43:57-04:00 btw, i think ideas like the fee going towards "tee of the month" being printed are whatever are a pipe dream, way too much planning for shit like that. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:44:13-04:00 2164631 14 2009-08-25T13:44:13-04:00 With being honest in mind i'm sorry but i find the "i'm so cute look at me" photo threads a real click off! I know i'm old and sour grapes and all, but looking at pictures of young girls with their babs out and then streams of comments after it is something i can find on Myspace. This is a T-shirt community primarily for artists but also clients, i've found amazing people to work with here whom i admire their work a hell of a lot. Weeding them out between all the teen angst posts i find is getting more difficult. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:44:23-04:00 2164641 6159 2009-08-25T13:44:23-04:00 <blockquote><cite>dobi said:</cite> btw, i think ideas like the fee going towards "tee of the month" being printed are whatever are a pipe dream, way too much planning for shit like that.</blockquote> an annual tee? we did it before. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:45:54-04:00 2164681 2991 2009-08-25T13:45:54-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Randi said:</cite> "how not to be dicknosed". </blockquote> i almost peed my pants anyway, i think the fee would be good and even better if it went to some sort of art show or something. That way the fee is going out to promote some of the bad ass artist on emptees. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:47:03-04:00 2164701 8848 2009-08-25T13:47:18-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Callum_Green said:</cite> Make this site invite only to post, but you can lurk for free</blockquote> I like this idea. That way only serious people are included, however, this does dump a lot of work onto whoever's job it is to do the approving. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:47:11-04:00 2164711 25701 2009-08-25T13:47:11-04:00 <blockquote><cite>derek said:</cite> With being honest in mind i'm sorry but i find the "i'm so cute look at me" photo threads a real click off! I know i'm old and sour grapes and all, but looking at pictures of young girls with their babs out and then streams of comments after it is something i can find on Myspace. This is a T-shirt community primarily for artists but also clients, i've found amazing people to work with here whom i admire their work a hell of a lot. Weeding them out between all the teen angst posts i find is getting more difficult.</blockquote> i get where you are coming from but regulating content is a whole other discussion. Im sure there are thousands of opinions about what the site should and shouldnt be content wise but i think the point is to suggest some structural changes that could help make the site more manageable for its users. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:48:46-04:00 2164731 1146 2009-08-25T13:49:04-04:00 I like the emptees mug and tee for joining 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:49:21-04:00 2164741 2329 2009-08-25T13:49:21-04:00 <blockquote><cite>wotto said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>dobi said:</cite> btw, i think ideas like the fee going towards "tee of the month" being printed are whatever are a pipe dream, way too much planning for shit like that.</blockquote> an annual tee? we did it before.</blockquote> even an annual tee, at 12$ for a membership fee really wouldn't work. plus, in a year a whole bunch can change. i lost 12 lbs this year, would i need to update a database with my size / address? ain't gonna work. i have always said 1 tee PER PERSON per day is the way to go. even though greg's stuff is super cute sometimes he posts like 5 in a row and other stuff just gets pushed aside. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:50:47-04:00 2164781 14 2009-08-25T13:50:47-04:00 $1 a month or tee? I think it could be more, and should be more. (if it's per month) especially with all these people who supposedly get paid 500 a design and all this garbage. Put your money where your mouth is. id love for it to be more like gigposters where the posters are actually screened. it's no different from moderating but maybe thats just me 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:51:10-04:00 2164791 782 2009-08-25T13:54:08-04:00 I'm not paying $30 a month honestly. I can barely afford food. I think the point of the fee is more just to weed people out, not to force people to prove their worth. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:51:51-04:00 2164811 2329 2009-08-25T13:53:43-04:00 <blockquote><cite>RustyEight said:</cite> I'm not paying $30 a month honestly. I can barely afford food.</blockquote> 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:52:12-04:00 2164821 8948 2009-08-25T13:52:12-04:00 here is something that could be done for real. In the tees section when you want to add a new tee there is a link to rustys mock up guide add similar guides to the categories descriptions when you post. Things that are ok, and things that are not ok. This is more of a means of giving fusktards a place to be fucktards away from the rest of the post. Adding a Jobs category or Hire or something that denotes me want to give you monies would be a plus. Then we can just use the Emptees filters that already are in place. Would a mod be able to have access to re click a category if it has been posted in the wrong category? <img src="http://www.grabup.com/uploads/dd7929a4e15ede556eba7ce536dfa4d6.png" /> 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:53:54-04:00 2164841 506 2009-08-25T13:53:54-04:00 ohai. emptees is a nice place. although i dont approve of the Rated X SOTD. its like DOH! NSFW! besides that... doggy dog world yo. internet communities wax and wane. soon there shall be a new master and new idol, until the community devours and turns their back on the one they raised as their leader. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:55:03-04:00 2164871 2865 2009-08-25T13:55:03-04:00 if 100 people paid $12 for a yearly subscription then I am sure someone could print an emptees logo tee and an annual tee. It could go in a big cartel or that other merch place that ships for you. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:55:45-04:00 2164881 2991 2009-08-25T13:55:45-04:00 Emptees devoured Jimmy yesterday it's the end times. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:56:16-04:00 2164901 506 2009-08-25T13:56:16-04:00 <blockquote> i get where you are coming from but regulating content is a whole other discussion. Im sure there are thousands of opinions about what the site should and shouldnt be content wise but i think the point is to suggest some structural changes that could help make the site more manageable for its users.</blockquote> Ok, maybe more categories to choose from, 1 for more casual chat and perhaps another for more graphic, or business orientated communication. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:56:31-04:00 2164911 6159 2009-08-25T13:56:31-04:00 i think charging per tee is kind of silly. greg / kyle would be fucked, but their tee contributions are always welcome. i just think a general fee per month like $2 should be fine. most of us get work from here, most of us make sales from here. $2 is a red bull but that $2 would keep people like that retarded 16 year old girl with jail tattoos out of here. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:57:40-04:00 2164931 14 2009-08-25T13:57:40-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Nathan said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>ExaltedByMark. said:</cite> I say we do a $1.00 a month fee. Proceeds go to Print Tee Shirt of The Month :) Emptees is Endless in Value :) & The douchers who ruin it will cheap out on the $1.00 a month fee.</blockquote> I think this is probably one of the best suggestions yet.. and the 1 tee per person too.</blockquote> most of the time the tee of the month is not available for print, I don't think the customer/company that bought that design is ok with this also a membership fee would be great. I agree 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:58:01-04:00 2164941 4552 2009-08-25T13:58:01-04:00 I just had a brain wave. In the tee section add a tab that says "vote for this design" alongside these "Category * Finished * Finished and tee is for sale * Finished and artwork is for sale * Not finished and I want critiques That would stop the VOTE FOR me blogs for one thing. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:58:42-04:00 2164951 2991 2009-08-25T13:58:42-04:00 Most of us get work or orders from this site, so a small monthly fee wouldn't be a big deal. I think that's a good idea. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:58:42-04:00 2164961 6199 2009-08-25T13:59:02-04:00 Sure, some people make a ton at this. But what about those who love it, yet simply don't have the time to do it 24/7 and have to hold down other jobs to make ends meet? I think if you start charging ( or charging too much ) you may end up pushing away some of the same people who made this place what it was in the first place. Emptees isn't just about the big dogs and the wannabe's, it's about the li'l guys too, just trying to make a name for ourselves with the prospect of building a rep and client base over time. I honestly don't know how I feel about charging for membership. I'm on the fence on that one. Invite only may be a good alternative? Think about how many rippers out there are making enough money off of <b><i>YOUR</b></i> designs to set up and pay for accounts and still continue to do what they do... Just my: <img src="http://www.lakerhatersportzcard.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/pennies2.gif" width = 100px/> 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:59:12-04:00 2164971 1498 2009-08-25T13:59:21-04:00 "Finished and up for voting here" tab 69321 Post 2009-08-25T13:59:52-04:00 2164981 2991 2009-08-25T13:59:52-04:00 <blockquote><cite>NVasion said:</cite> I think most of us get work or orders from this site, so a small monthly fee wouldn't be a big deal. I think that's a good idea.</blockquote> Would potential buyers pay the fee to join ? 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:00:25-04:00 2165001 6159 2009-08-25T14:00:53-04:00 <blockquote><cite>dobi said:</cite> i think charging per tee is kind of silly. greg / kyle would be fucked, but their tee contributions are always welcome. i just think a general fee per month like $2 should be fine. most of us get work from here, most of us make sales from here. $2 is a red bull but that $2 would keep people like that retarded 16 year old girl with jail tattoos out of here.</blockquote> yeah, i dont think you really need any other incentives other than access to the site. If i had been paying for this site for the last two years, the membership would have already paid for itself a shit ton of times. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:00:38-04:00 2165011 1146 2009-08-25T14:00:59-04:00 <blockquote><cite>LitoQ said:</cite> Sure, some people make a ton at this. But what about those who love it, yet simply don't have the time to do it 24/7 and have to hold down other jobs to make ends meet? I think if you start charging ( or charging too much ) you may end up pushing away some of the same people who made this place what it was in the first place. Emptees isn't just about the big dogs and the wannabe's, it's about the li'l guys too, just trying to make a name for ourselves with the prospect of building a rep and client base over time. I honestly don't know how I feel about charging for membership. I'm on the fence on that one. Invite only may be a good alternative? Think about how many rippers out there are making enough money off of <b><i>YOUR</b></i> designs to set up and pay for accounts and still continue to do what they do... Just my: <img src="http://www.lakerhatersportzcard.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/pennies2.gif" width = 100px/></blockquote> The little guy who is serious will pay $1 a month, I would have. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:01:07-04:00 2165031 2991 2009-08-25T14:01:07-04:00 i dunno 2 bucks a month is nothign really... i could find that on the groudn in change and i dont do this fulltime.. i have a day job that i have been laid off from sicne last monday and can still pay a fee... of $2/month 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:01:48-04:00 2165071 2870 2009-08-25T14:01:48-04:00 Can this be like a nightclub so ladies can get in for free? 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:02:14-04:00 2165091 3934 2009-08-25T14:02:14-04:00 <blockquote><cite>LitoQ said:</cite> Sure, some people make a ton at this. But what about those who love it, yet simply don't have the time to do it 24/7 and have to hold down other jobs to make ends meet? I think if you start charging ( or charging too much ) you may end up pushing away some of the same people who made this place what it was in the first place. Emptees isn't just about the big dogs and the wannabe's, it's about the li'l guys too, just trying to make a name for ourselves with the prospect of building a rep and client base over time. I honestly don't know how I feel about charging for membership. I'm on the fence on that one. Invite only may be a good alternative? Think about how many rippers out there are making enough money off of <b><i>YOUR</b></i> designs to set up and pay for accounts and still continue to do what they do... Just my: <img src="http://www.lakerhatersportzcard.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/pennies2.gif" width = 100px/></blockquote> Good points, the same people your trying to keep out have money to so not really going to stop them. Maybe a invite only would work better if your going plus if your going to make a fee have anyone with a bigcartel store that pays for it get a code to use so they don't have to pay 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:04:07-04:00 2165121 2552 2009-08-25T14:06:01-04:00 <blockquote><cite>wotto said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>LitoQ said:</cite> Sure, some people make a ton at this. But what about those who love it, yet simply don't have the time to do it 24/7 and have to hold down other jobs to make ends meet? I think if you start charging ( or charging too much ) you may end up pushing away some of the same people who made this place what it was in the first place. Emptees isn't just about the big dogs and the wannabe's, it's about the li'l guys too, just trying to make a name for ourselves with the prospect of building a rep and client base over time. I honestly don't know how I feel about charging for membership. I'm on the fence on that one. Invite only may be a good alternative? Think about how many rippers out there are making enough money off of <b><i>YOUR</b></i> designs to set up and pay for accounts and still continue to do what they do... Just my: <img src="http://www.lakerhatersportzcard.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/pennies2.gif" width = 100px/></blockquote> The little guy who is serious will pay $1 a month, I would have.</blockquote> Im not saying that $1 is too much by any means. Simply suggesting there may be more effective ways of weeding out the trolls, etc. ( I thought that was the point of the thread?) Also, I don't think paying for a membership to any forum is indicative of how serious you are... One might argue the contrary. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:06:32-04:00 2165161 1498 2009-08-25T14:09:44-04:00 I definitely be down for paying a monthly fee. I think it's a great idea. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:06:36-04:00 2165171 7196 2009-08-25T14:06:36-04:00 if youre too damn cheap to pay 24 bucks a year, then holy crap. with everyone bitching complaining, and the continuous - NEED TO PAY RENT! - SALE! - BUY THIS! - MY DOG DIED NEED MONEY! (I am guilty of these things) I have made money off of this site regardless, ebay charges you to even put up a listing, and so should emptees. this place makes everyone money, somewhere / somehow. if its from what tablet you should buy, what settings, where you get this, or that. ADVERTISING, selling old handmedown shit, posting your work so labels and lurkers looking for work can hire you.people have made money of it. Theres a lot of people who say, "if it werent for emptees, I wouldn't / couldn't of _______" this is basically like a free hosting site for everyones work I don't think it's such a bad thing to charge / pay. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:07:41-04:00 2165181 782 2009-08-25T14:10:16-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Mr.Stan Geek said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>LitoQ said:</cite> Sure, some people make a ton at this. But what about those who love it, yet simply don't have the time to do it 24/7 and have to hold down other jobs to make ends meet? I think if you start charging ( or charging too much ) you may end up pushing away some of the same people who made this place what it was in the first place. Emptees isn't just about the big dogs and the wannabe's, it's about the li'l guys too, just trying to make a name for ourselves with the prospect of building a rep and client base over time. I honestly don't know how I feel about charging for membership. I'm on the fence on that one. Invite only may be a good alternative? Think about how many rippers out there are making enough money off of <b><i>YOUR</b></i> designs to set up and pay for accounts and still continue to do what they do... Just my: <img src="http://www.lakerhatersportzcard.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/pennies2.gif" width = 100px/></blockquote> Good points, the same people your trying to keep out have money to so not really going to stop them. Maybe a invite only would work better</blockquote> how do you invite potential clients? 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:07:54-04:00 2165191 4552 2009-08-25T14:07:54-04:00 I'm pretty sure any subscription fee would be tax deductable for any small companies in the UK. As long as the monthly / yearly charge wasn't too much I'd pay. Worth every penny. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:07:57-04:00 2165201 28701 2009-08-25T14:07:57-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Randi said:</cite> Can this be like a nightclub so ladies can get in for free?</blockquote> Girls don't pay for things. Put Randi's fee on my tab. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:08:06-04:00 2165211 506 2009-08-25T14:08:06-04:00 I'm an active user but don't post that much. The reason I come here is to learn and get a feel of what comes with running a brand, or see how great art is made (methodes, tools, ...) . If people would charge money for a forum I would be gone, I'm a student and the economy ain't that great. + what do I get in return ?? To see images I can see on portfolios and personal sites, people bitchin' for work, ... And i believe once the summer is over and students sit back behind a desk that the quality wil rise again. +Why would you wanne kill potential clients, by excluding them a lot of you will lose clients, free advertising, connections with upcoming talent, ... I believe things will cooldown in a month so just sweat it out ... 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:08:31-04:00 2165221 12033 2009-08-25T14:08:31-04:00 I think more detailed thread categorization would fix a lot of these problems. If there was one more tier of organization here, the annoying drama threads could be buried and fizzle out quicker. If they charged for access to Emptees (which would never happen, in my opinion), this site would become as popular as Virb- and about as useful. You need to think of a way to harness and embrace the users (of all intelligence and skill levels), not brute force the ones you don't like out of the site. My personal recommendation is to organize the forums more, this structure made sense when the site was small, but now that there are all of these people (talking about god knows what), nobody can 1) find what they're looking for or 2) ignore the garbage they don't want to see. http://districtlin.es 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:08:52-04:00 2165231 265 2009-08-25T14:08:52-04:00 I wouldn't mind paying a fee to use this site, it would definitely clean up the people serious from the people who just think they can come here and dump on threads... 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:09:09-04:00 2165241 11199 2009-08-25T14:09:09-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Killer Napkins said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Callum_Green said:</cite> This is a good idea. But fee to tee isn't a good idea, i think it should be a few $ month, but have a cap on the limit, say 1 a day. The thing is, this will take a hell of alot of work on indie labs side. Lets hope they are down. OR! Make this site invite only to post, but you can lurk for free, so if a band or w/e comes along, they can check everyone out, but without the fear of spam+trolls. And if this goes ahead, you could have a "Invite please" mini-forum, where people post their portfolios/give a reason why they want an invite, and a mod, or a majority, can then invite them.</blockquote> that way of invite could work... though who would be the judges.. or would it be a community vote if they were in or out..</blockquote> That. Also, I don't think 'invite only' would work. Not everyone has a similar art/design background. I never had an adequate design/illustration portfolio before coming here. It would suck for potential designers out there that just don't have an 'adequate' portfolio. I'd have been fucked if "invite only" happened before I found the site. I'm totally down with paying a fee. I've received much work from this site, and I'd pay if it means I get more jobs. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:10:20-04:00 2165251 24821 2009-08-25T14:13:30-04:00 if the monthly fee isnt passed... then the way callum green suggested how to preform invites... by judging a person's dedication and portfolio. and that may be being elitist.. but... i think if people dont have a portfolio of drawing or design before.. even if they havent done tshirts before or they are a beginner.. they would most likely get declined an invite.. and i think if the invite only allows people in that a community feels are compitent and people that actually want and should be here, the right choices will be made for who gets and invite and who doesnt... 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:10:25-04:00 2165261 2870 2009-08-25T14:10:25-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Fat Mouse said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Mr.Stan Geek said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>LitoQ said:</cite> Sure, some people make a ton at this. But what about those who love it, yet simply don't have the time to do it 24/7 and have to hold down other jobs to make ends meet? I think if you start charging ( or charging too much ) you may end up pushing away some of the same people who made this place what it was in the first place. Emptees isn't just about the big dogs and the wannabe's, it's about the li'l guys too, just trying to make a name for ourselves with the prospect of building a rep and client base over time. I honestly don't know how I feel about charging for membership. I'm on the fence on that one. Invite only may be a good alternative? Think about how many rippers out there are making enough money off of <b><i>YOUR</b></i> designs to set up and pay for accounts and still continue to do what they do... Just my: <img src="http://www.lakerhatersportzcard.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/pennies2.gif" width = 100px/></blockquote> Good points, the same people your trying to keep out have money to so not really going to stop them. Maybe a invite only would work better</blockquote> how do you invite potential clients?</blockquote> Have it where the client contacts the artist by e-mail most artist here post there e-mails or they can make a e-mail for business only 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:10:57-04:00 2165281 2552 2009-08-25T14:10:57-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Fat Mouse said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Mr.Stan Geek said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>LitoQ said:</cite> Sure, some people make a ton at this. But what about those who love it, yet simply don't have the time to do it 24/7 and have to hold down other jobs to make ends meet? I think if you start charging ( or charging too much ) you may end up pushing away some of the same people who made this place what it was in the first place. Emptees isn't just about the big dogs and the wannabe's, it's about the li'l guys too, just trying to make a name for ourselves with the prospect of building a rep and client base over time. I honestly don't know how I feel about charging for membership. I'm on the fence on that one. Invite only may be a good alternative? Think about how many rippers out there are making enough money off of <b><i>YOUR</b></i> designs to set up and pay for accounts and still continue to do what they do... Just my: <img src="http://www.lakerhatersportzcard.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/pennies2.gif" width = 100px/></blockquote> Good points, the same people your trying to keep out have money to so not really going to stop them. Maybe a invite only would work better</blockquote> how do you invite potential clients?</blockquote> Invites would be for participation. Most of the potential clients are simply lurking anyway, if I'm not mistaken. Again, not saying that's how it should be... just making a suggestion. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:11:15-04:00 2165291 1498 2009-08-25T14:11:15-04:00 One client from emptees could pay for your membership for years and years. Its not that big of a deal. I'm all for little guys coming here too, but if the little guy is serious about this profession at all, then he won't mind the slight fee. Its just a way to separate the serious people from the wannabees 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:11:39-04:00 2165301 2329 2009-08-25T14:12:44-04:00 <blockquote><cite>RustyEight said:</cite> One client from emptees could pay for your membership for years and years. Its not that big of a deal. I'm all for little guys coming here too, but if the little guy is serious about this profession at all, then he won't mind the slight fee.</blockquote> Agreed. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:13:21-04:00 2165321 7196 2009-08-25T14:13:21-04:00 I would be down for a fee equal or less than 2$ per month. Also i dont know about the tee per day limit, maybe just 2 or 3. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:13:36-04:00 2165331 6279 2009-08-25T14:14:20-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Yoeri said:</cite> I'm an active user but don't post that much. The reason I come here is to learn and get a feel of what comes with running a brand, or see how great art is made (methodes, tools, ...) . If people would charge money for a forum I would be gone, I'm a student and the economy ain't that great. + what do I get in return ?? To see images I can see on portfolios and personal sites, people bitchin' for work, ... And i believe once the summer is over and students sit back behind a desk that the quality wil rise again. +Why would you wanne kill potential clients, by excluding them a lot of you will lose clients, free advertising, connections with upcoming talent, ... I believe things will cooldown in a month so just sweat it out ...</blockquote> people / potential clients could still lurk. just like $2 a month to be active. that would deter a shit ton / stupid tees / threads. hopefully stuff like this will vanish. <img src="http://cache0.emptees.com/images/367551/funky_business.jpg" /> 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:13:59-04:00 2165351 14 2009-08-25T14:13:59-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Yoeri said:</cite> I'm an active user but don't post that much. The reason I come here is to learn and get a feel of what comes with running a brand, or see how great art is made (methodes, tools, ...) . If people would charge money for a forum I would be gone, I'm a student and the economy ain't that great. + what do I get in return ?? To see images I can see on portfolios and personal sites, people bitchin' for work, ... And i believe once the summer is over and students sit back behind a desk that the quality wil rise again. +Why would you wanne kill potential clients, by excluding them a lot of you will lose clients, free advertising, connections with upcoming talent, ... I believe things will cooldown in a month so just sweat it out ...</blockquote> You would still be able to browse and see everything, just not able to post stuff. I hope the Emptees gods are reading this thread. Oh... and I really really like the discussion going on here. Just sayin... 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:14:17-04:00 2165361 2329 2009-08-25T14:16:30-04:00 But... I love Emptees... 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:16:10-04:00 2165401 26051 2009-08-25T14:16:10-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Kyle Crawford said:</cite> $1 a month or tee? I think it could be more, and should be more. (if it's per month) especially with all these people who supposedly get paid 500 a design and all this garbage. Put your money where your mouth is. id love for it to be more like gigposters where the posters are actually screened. it's no different from moderating but maybe thats just me</blockquote> I don't care enough about this place to pay much more than that. $1 is more or less the barrier of entry to say a)"I'm a real person with a real Paypal account." and b)"I'm not someone who just signed up to ask questions about tablets and then disappear forever." It's not about measuring bankrolls. And, until the place is cleaned up, I'm not sure it's worth too much more of a time or monetary investment. Not trying to be a jerk, just trying to be realistic. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:16:19-04:00 2165411 5738 2009-08-25T14:16:19-04:00 if you make it so you can pay up front for multiple months of use or just pay each month, that'd be much better than just once a month you gotta pay. I personally hate having regular bills. Or even just make a registration fee. That'd keep out a lot of losers 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:16:21-04:00 2165421 7945 2009-08-25T14:16:21-04:00 I don't think a fee would be a good deterrent. I know a lot of fucktards that have $2 I am more in favor of a way for serious people to be able better filter what they want. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:16:32-04:00 2165431 506 2009-08-25T14:17:57-04:00 three strikes rule break the rules three times block their IP address 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:17:17-04:00 2165461 2552 2009-08-25T14:17:17-04:00 emptees is doomed to die a slow painful death I think this is due to the nature of the populace can't argue with destiny 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:17:23-04:00 2165471 7336 2009-08-25T14:17:23-04:00 How about members have the option to pay but then have access to members only areas with members chat, downloads, other stuff I can't think of just now? 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:17:32-04:00 2165481 28701 2009-08-25T14:17:32-04:00 You could make it so that non-members could post 1 topic or 1 tee per month, with the moderators still there to delete the topic if it's just crap. That way if somebody has a serious question and they can't find it in the search, they can still seek help here. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:17:32-04:00 2165491 12942 2009-08-25T14:17:32-04:00 You got a whole month to post a t-shirt design or some layout,web design advertise and regain the money that you paid. If you can regain the monthly paid fee, you better not continue on what you are doing. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:18:06-04:00 2165501 6279 2009-08-25T14:19:18-04:00 <blockquote><cite>quakerninja said:</cite> I don't think a fee would be a good deterrent. I know a lot of fucktards that have $2</blockquote> Yeah, but how many would want to pay for a site subscription? And also, I feel like if you had to pay to use this site, you are a lot less likely to be an ass since you have a financial investment in it. <blockquote><cite>Travis Cook said:</cite> if you make it so you can pay up front for multiple months of use or just pay each month, that'd be much better than just once a month you gotta pay. I personally hate having regular bills. Or even just make a registration fee. That'd keep out a lot of losers</blockquote> I'm sure it could be set up to do either. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:18:16-04:00 2165511 2329 2009-08-25T14:18:16-04:00 <blockquote><cite>lmt337 said:</cite> How about members have the option to pay but then have access to members only areas with members chat, downloads, other stuff I can't think of just now?</blockquote> You're missing the point of paying. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:20:09-04:00 2165531 2329 2009-08-25T14:20:23-04:00 <blockquote><cite>isaboa said:</cite> emptees is doomed to die a slow painful death I think this is due to the nature of the populace can't argue with destiny</blockquote> Unfortunately, I am starting to agree... This seems like it could be the beginning of the end. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:21:15-04:00 2165541 1498 2009-08-25T14:21:15-04:00 One time fee, I think. Anything more than that is a paperwork nightmare on both ends of the spectrum. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:21:28-04:00 2165551 5738 2009-08-25T14:21:28-04:00 <blockquote><cite>LitoQ said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>isaboa said:</cite> emptees is doomed to die a slow painful death I think this is due to the nature of the populace can't argue with destiny</blockquote> Unfortunately, I am starting to agree... This seems like it could be the beginning of the end.</blockquote> Naysayers. This site is awesome. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:22:34-04:00 2165561 8948 2009-08-25T14:23:12-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Tilteed said:</cite> You could make it so that non-members could post 1 topic or 1 tee per month, with the moderators still there to delete the topic if it's just crap. That way if somebody has a serious question and they can't find it in the search, they can still seek help here.</blockquote> Yeah that could help, sometimes real clients post in the talk section, so if they are serious they can have a post per month without paying. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:22:34-04:00 2165571 6279 2009-08-25T14:23:59-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Frenden said:</cite> One time fee, I think. Anything more than that is a paperwork nightmare on both ends of the spectrum.</blockquote> might be correct. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:22:34-04:00 2165581 14 2009-08-25T14:22:34-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Frenden said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Kyle Crawford said:</cite> $1 a month or tee? I think it could be more, and should be more. (if it's per month) especially with all these people who supposedly get paid 500 a design and all this garbage. Put your money where your mouth is. id love for it to be more like gigposters where the posters are actually screened. it's no different from moderating but maybe thats just me</blockquote> I don't care enough about this place to pay much more than that. $1 is more or less the barrier of entry to say a)"I'm a real person with a real Paypal account." and b)"I'm not someone who just signed up to ask questions about tablets and then disappear forever." It's not about measuring bankrolls. And, until the place is cleaned up, I'm not sure it's worth too much more of a time or monetary investment. Not trying to be a jerk, just trying to be realistic.</blockquote> After thinking about it somewhat, i think i'd go the same way if the fee was too high. I really like styl.us atm and would just end up there, but i'd love for Emptees to flourish whatever the plan. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:23:03-04:00 2165591 6884 2009-08-25T14:23:03-04:00 I know that all the votes or sales I have ever gotten for any shirts I have floating around have come from here, and any wins are because of the support of the people here. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:23:27-04:00 2165601 506 2009-08-25T14:23:27-04:00 <blockquote><cite>dobi said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Frenden said:</cite> One time fee, I think. Anything more than that is a paperwork nightmare on both ends of the spectrum.</blockquote> might be correct.</blockquote> agree 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:23:28-04:00 2165611 35211 2009-08-25T14:23:28-04:00 <blockquote><cite>8-bit ZOMBIE said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>LitoQ said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>isaboa said:</cite> emptees is doomed to die a slow painful death I think this is due to the nature of the populace can't argue with destiny</blockquote> Unfortunately, I am starting to agree... This seems like it could be the beginning of the end.</blockquote> Naysayers, this site is awesome.</blockquote> Don't get me wrong, I LOVE this place. But this <i>could</i> get way out of hand ( not to mention counterproductive ) I think a one time registration fee, however, isn't a terrible idea. Though, it wouldn't necessarily keep out the "noobies" or "wannabes". Keep in mind you weren't all always the "Be's" yourselves, you had to have started somewhere. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:23:35-04:00 2165621 1498 2009-08-25T14:28:01-04:00 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlKzlfqmzpQ 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:24:41-04:00 2165641 2802 2009-08-25T14:24:41-04:00 maybe just moderate harder/tougher? 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:25:22-04:00 2165661 2991 2009-08-25T14:25:22-04:00 Fee or pay to post seems like a cool idea. I don't with this place to turn into DeviantArt and I feel like that's the direction it's heading... 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:25:37-04:00 2165671 1056 2009-08-25T14:25:37-04:00 <blockquote><cite>lmt337 said:</cite> How about members have the option to pay but then have access to members only areas with members chat, downloads, other stuff I can't think of just now?</blockquote> i like it 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:25:37-04:00 2165681 4552 2009-08-25T14:25:37-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Fat Mouse said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>lmt337 said:</cite> How about members have the option to pay but then have access to members only areas with members chat, downloads, other stuff I can't think of just now?</blockquote> i like it</blockquote> Come on, what would that do to deter anything? Its just making a paid membership for the sake of a paid membership. Dumb. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:26:49-04:00 2165691 2329 2009-08-25T14:26:49-04:00 Ultimately we could sit here and talk all day about paying for Emptees but I highly doubt the people at Indie Labs are going to waste their time. They would have to re-develop Emptees with a payment system. I highly doubt they want to spend a lot of man hours to develop something that is going to loose them traffic. At the end of the day majority of you will still go to this site no matter what the conditions are. So in the eye of Indie Labs, instead of loosing 60% of traffic (People who are not willing to pay), they would be better off if the 40% of you that are "fed" up just left. And although they would make money off members joining the site, if it was as low as a cost as you are all thinking it would be, it wouldn't benefit as much as normal advertisements. It would be purely stupid from a business and marketing perceptive for Indie Labs to charge for this site and only be able to access it by paying. I do however think "upgraded" accounts would not be a bad idea. With maybe more features 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:26:58-04:00 2165701 1514 2009-08-25T14:29:34-04:00 From a business standpoint, if I'm Indie Labs, the second this site becomes more of a thorn/hassle than it's a boon to business, it's dead. Start being a pain with requests for major site changes and the need for accounting/billing/customer service and it *may* be a death knell. So, yeah, I'm thinking -at best- we might be able to get a one time fee feature. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:27:06-04:00 2165711 5738 2009-08-25T14:27:06-04:00 <blockquote><cite>jared said:</cite>My personal recommendation is to organize the forums more, this structure made sense when the site was small, but now that there are all of these people (talking about god knows what), nobody can 1) find what they're looking for or 2) ignore the garbage they don't want to see.</blockquote> Agreed. That is the most realistic solution. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:28:09-04:00 2165721 1514 2009-08-25T14:28:09-04:00 <blockquote><cite>zreed/bluetidepro said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>jared said:</cite>My personal recommendation is to organize the forums more, this structure made sense when the site was small, but now that there are all of these people (talking about god knows what), nobody can 1) find what they're looking for or 2) ignore the garbage they don't want to see.</blockquote> Agreed. That is the most realistic solution.</blockquote> Again - as a business - how much monetary reward do they get for the time-sink required to implement pagination or a more robust search? (Just playing devil's advocate.) 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:29:39-04:00 2165731 5738 2009-08-25T14:30:00-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Frenden said:</cite> I don't care enough about this place to pay much more than that. $1 is more or less the barrier of entry to say a)"I'm a real person with a real Paypal account." and b)"I'm not someone who just signed up to ask questions about tablets and then disappear forever." It's not about measuring bankrolls. And, until the place is cleaned up, I'm not sure it's worth too much more of a time or monetary investment. Not trying to be a jerk, just trying to be realistic.</blockquote> Plus I think that, people who run emptees are too lazy/don't have enough time to keep an eye on stupid posts and whatever you guys are after, so charging fee is just going the easy way, which we all know isn't the good thing I mean, don't get me wrong - I'm pretty much new here myself, and I don't know how things used to be in the past, but since I'm a member I didn't notice so much bullshit and whining to fell invites or fees are neccessary and I visit emptees copule times a day 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:31:31-04:00 2165761 12580 2009-08-25T14:31:31-04:00 I think invite only to post would go a long way. People could still lurk but couldn't post unless they've been invited. It should cut down on a lot of the shit that goes on here. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:31:55-04:00 2165771 1661 2009-08-25T14:31:55-04:00 <blockquote><cite>justgeoff said:</cite> I think invite only to post would go a long way. People could still lurk but couldn't post unless they've been invited. It should cut down on a lot of the shit that goes on here.</blockquote> great idea. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:32:55-04:00 2165781 890 2009-08-25T14:32:55-04:00 <blockquote><cite>wotto said:</cite> maybe just moderate harder/tougher?</blockquote> Keep a stickied post like other forums do that has instructions and reasons for posts to be deleted. Add a couple more mods and bust some heads. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:33:19-04:00 2165791 12942 2009-08-25T14:33:19-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Frenden said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>zreed/bluetidepro said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>jared said:</cite>My personal recommendation is to organize the forums more, this structure made sense when the site was small, but now that there are all of these people (talking about god knows what), nobody can 1) find what they're looking for or 2) ignore the garbage they don't want to see.</blockquote> Agreed. That is the most realistic solution.</blockquote> Again - as a business - how much monetary reward do they get for the time-sink required to implement pagination or a more robust search? (Just playing devil's advocate.)</blockquote> It just becomes a gauge of how much business they get between ads and BigCartel from this site. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:33:23-04:00 2165801 2329 2009-08-25T14:33:23-04:00 I think a one time registration fee would be enough to stop people who are not completely serious about design away, without pushing out the respected artists on here that we all love and who have helped to build up the community. As for the disrespectful people who have already managed to join before the registration fee I'm pretty sure if they are not serious they will eventually get bored and fade out. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:33:46-04:00 2165821 10058 2009-08-25T14:33:46-04:00 I also think a 2 tee per day limit would help from people flooding the site with designs, good or bad. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:34:04-04:00 2165831 1661 2009-08-25T14:34:04-04:00 Invite only works well for all the art collectives/communities I'm a part of. It, or the fee, would clearly position the site as a bit elitist, though. That might not be what they want. All our speculation is a smidge moot until someone from 'management', as it were, weighs in. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:34:04-04:00 2165841 5738 2009-08-25T14:34:04-04:00 <blockquote><cite>justgeoff said:</cite> I also think a 2 tee per day limit would help from people flooding the site with designs, good or bad.</blockquote> 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:34:46-04:00 2165861 5738 2009-08-25T14:34:46-04:00 <blockquote><cite>justgeoff said:</cite> I think invite only to post would go a long way. People could still lurk but couldn't post unless they've been invited. It should cut down on a lot of the shit that goes on here.</blockquote> But how do you know who's lurking in order to invite them? I personally hate this idea. If it was invite only, I probably wouldn't be part of this community. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:34:52-04:00 2165871 2329 2009-08-25T14:34:52-04:00 why not just ignore the shitty posts and the shitty tees its so simple i dont get whats the big deal if you see something that you dont like dont comment on it 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:35:37-04:00 2165881 9184 2009-08-25T14:35:37-04:00 I think any new member should pay a 1 time fee of $20, and that fee will include an emptees tee and mug. Then, there should be an annual fee of $12.00 and this would also include an annual tee. Every year, there should be a contest to design the annual emptee. Oh...and I think we should have an annual party...different city every year. Thoughts? 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:35:50-04:00 2165891 8413 2009-08-25T14:35:50-04:00 another free solution. Shit posts get 0 response from the majority. 0 comments will deter trolls. maybe. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:36:29-04:00 2165901 2991 2009-08-25T14:36:29-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Benzoe88 said:</cite> why not just ignore the shitty posts and the shitty tees its so simple i dont get whats the big deal if you see something that you dont like dont comment on it</blockquote> 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:37:21-04:00 2165911 1514 2009-08-25T14:37:21-04:00 <blockquote><cite>payton1 said:</cite> I think any new member should pay a 1 time fee of $20, and that fee will include an emptees tee and mug. Then, there should be an annual fee of $12.00 and this would also include an annual tee. Every year, there should be a contest to design the annual emptee. Oh...and I think we should have an annual party...different city every year. Thoughts?</blockquote> No, what don't people get about this payment concept? Its not to upgrade emptees or get stuff... its to filter people out. Thats it. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:37:53-04:00 2165921 2329 2009-08-25T14:37:53-04:00 <blockquote><cite>wotto said:</cite> another free solution. Shit posts get 0 response from the majority. 0 comments will deter trolls. maybe.</blockquote> <blockquote><cite>zreed/bluetidepro said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Benzoe88 said:</cite> why not just ignore the shitty posts and the shitty tees its so simple i dont get whats the big deal if you see something that you dont like dont comment on it</blockquote></blockquote> 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:37:56-04:00 2165931 12942 2009-08-25T14:37:56-04:00 <blockquote><cite>wotto said:</cite> another free solution. Shit posts get 0 response from the majority. 0 comments will deter trolls. maybe.</blockquote> You'll never get full compliance. :) 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:38:10-04:00 2165941 5738 2009-08-25T14:38:10-04:00 Shitty posts or tees won't go away with a fee. If people can afford enough to print their bad designs they can easily shell out a dollar to sign up, or send their friends a request. The real problem is one that won't ever be fixed monetarily. Its all the new people bringing in their "I'm better than all of you" attitude. That's what starts 99% of the drama on here. Someone gets all bent out of shape because they are not getting love on their tee, or people don't agree with their posts. You find a way to fix that, and emptees will be back to normal again. I just don't really see money sorting out that issue. If anything new people might be more upset that they are paying to use this site and still not getting and love on their shirts and sarcasm on their posts. "Hey, I pay just like you... why are you all being so mean to me?!" 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:39:35-04:00 2165961 1140 2009-08-25T14:40:53-04:00 <blockquote><cite>RustyEight said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>payton1 said:</cite> I think any new member should pay a 1 time fee of $20, and that fee will include an emptees tee and mug. Then, there should be an annual fee of $12.00 and this would also include an annual tee. Every year, there should be a contest to design the annual emptee. Oh...and I think we should have an annual party...different city every year. Thoughts?</blockquote> No, what don't people get about this payment concept? Its not to upgrade emptees or get stuff... its to filter people out. Thats it.</blockquote> so where's the money going then? 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:39:52-04:00 2165971 8413 2009-08-25T14:39:52-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Frenden said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>wotto said:</cite> another free solution. Shit posts get 0 response from the majority. 0 comments will deter trolls. maybe.</blockquote> You'll never get full compliance. :)</blockquote> I know but if the people who matter do it then it would help. The trolls post and get like 20 comments telling em to gtfo - never understood why people bother. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:39:56-04:00 2165981 2991 2009-08-25T14:39:56-04:00 what about a flagging system? certain amount of flags: varied restrictions/temporary bans. repeat offenders: banned. although, i presume that would be a shit load of work on top. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:42:16-04:00 2166001 2337 2009-08-25T14:42:16-04:00 @wombat, people feeling "owed" something after paying a fee is a good call. I can see that sort of entitlement attitude slipping in. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:43:15-04:00 2166021 5738 2009-08-25T14:43:15-04:00 <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> Shitty posts or tees won't go away with a fee. If people can afford enough to print their bad designs they can easily shell out a dollar to sign up, or send their friends a request. The real problem is one that won't ever be fixed monetarily. Its all the new people bringing in their "I'm better than all of you" attitude. That's what starts 99% of the drama on here. Someone gets all bent out of shape because they arn't getting love on their tee, or in their post. You find a way to fix that, and emptees will be back to normal again. I just don't really see money sorting out that issue. If anything new people might be more upset that they are paying to use this site and still not getting and love on their shirts.</blockquote> I think you got a point. Imagine if somebody is paying fee, then posting a design that isn't getting as much love as expected (or none at all), so what he/she do? Post a whine about it, but this time it'll feel like he has all the rights to do that because of the paid money. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:43:39-04:00 2166031 12580 2009-08-25T14:43:39-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Frenden said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>justgeoff said:</cite> I also think a 2 tee per day limit would help from people flooding the site with designs, good or bad.</blockquote></blockquote> 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:45:21-04:00 2166051 890 2009-08-25T14:45:21-04:00 What about an "Ignore" feature ( just another idea tossed into the mix ) Like where I could ignore a user entirely and none of their posts/tees/comments would ever show for me? 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:46:13-04:00 2166061 1498 2009-08-25T14:46:13-04:00 I honestly think that with tighter moderation (And more mods) and a few simple site changes, most of the "problems" with this site could be cleared up. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:46:47-04:00 2166081 8948 2009-08-25T14:48:12-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Sam Kaufman said:</cite> Fee or pay to post seems like a cool idea. I don't with this place to turn into DeviantArt and I feel like that's the direction it's heading...</blockquote> yeah, I would be willing to pay a dollar or two a month. or even a one time fee. I think we all make money off of posting on the site and kicking back a small fee wouldnt hurt at all. I know I'm not a very outspoken member here, but I've been here for a long time and I have definitely seen a decline in respect and quality (although, I'm not saying I post the best tee's, but they're not the worst) so I think weeding out the annoying people that just sign up to post pointless crap is a good idea 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:47:12-04:00 2166091 600 2009-08-25T14:47:12-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Frenden said:</cite> @wombat, people feeling "owed" something after paying a fee is a good call. I can see that sort of entitlement attitude slipping in.</blockquote> Thats one major issue with it that I see. The problem is, is that this site is a collective of people who all feel that they are in power or on a similar playing field. Sure, there are moderators and such, but in essence we are not following one person. IE. The View Askew (kevin smiths board) has a two dollar sign up fee but no one goes onto that board unless they are fans of kevin smith. I'm sure I am not getting to the point I am trying to make here but I guess with such a broad spectrum of data going on in this site you would run into the same problems with a payment as we are without it. (People thinking they are better than others, people talking shit to others, etc). Its like a private school vs a public school. Both the students start fights, do drugs, and get into trouble... except one hides behind the fact that their parents can afford it. <blockquote><cite>Joey said:</cite> i really didn't read all of this, but i would not pay to hang out on a website. i don't care how good it is.</blockquote> I concur, if emptees became a pay site... I probably wouldn't be back. Be it only a dollar or so, just not worth it and I doubt it will reverse emptees back to what it was. Granted if the site had started out a pay site it would be different, but I don't really see asking people for money on a site that is already established as "a free for all for tshirt designers" to then become a pay site to be a smooth transition. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:47:15-04:00 2166101 1140 2009-08-25T14:56:28-04:00 i really didn't read all of this, but i would not pay to hang out on a website. i don't care how good it is. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:47:35-04:00 2166111 67 2009-08-25T14:47:35-04:00 <blockquote><cite>8-bit ZOMBIE said:</cite> I honestly think that with tighter moderation (And more mods) and a few simple site changes, most of the problems with this site could be cleared up.</blockquote> How many mads are there now? 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:47:54-04:00 2166121 28701 2009-08-25T14:47:54-04:00 <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> Shitty posts or tees won't go away with a fee. If people can afford enough to print their bad designs they can easily shell out a dollar to sign up, or send their friends a request. The real problem is one that won't ever be fixed monetarily. Its all the new people bringing in their "I'm better than all of you" attitude. That's what starts 99% of the drama on here. Someone gets all bent out of shape because they are not getting love on their tee, or people don't agree with their posts. You find a way to fix that, and emptees will be back to normal again. I just don't really see money sorting out that issue. If anything new people might be more upset that they are paying to use this site and still not getting and love on their shirts and sarcasm on their posts. "Hey, I pay just like you... why are you all being so mean to me?!"</blockquote> Agreed to all that 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:48:22-04:00 2166131 1056 2009-08-25T14:48:22-04:00 <blockquote><cite>lmt337 said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>8-bit ZOMBIE said:</cite> I honestly think that with tighter moderation (And more mods) and a few simple site changes, most of the problems with this site could be cleared up.</blockquote> How many mods are there now?</blockquote> Uno mods. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:48:28-04:00 2166141 8948 2009-08-25T14:49:02-04:00 <blockquote><cite>8-bit ZOMBIE said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>lmt337 said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>8-bit ZOMBIE said:</cite> I honestly think that with tighter moderation (And more mods) and a few simple site changes, most of the problems with this site could be cleared up.</blockquote> How many mods are there now?</blockquote> Uno mods.</blockquote> Two, Dobi and Deal 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:49:42-04:00 2166171 2329 2009-08-25T14:49:53-04:00 What about just having things approved before they become visible on site? That includes profiles. You could sign up and provide links, give your reasons for wanting to become a member etc etc and if the mods thought you were clearly just going to cause trouble with your attitude or whatnot, they could deny your request to become a member. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:49:56-04:00 2166191 6884 2009-08-25T14:49:56-04:00 <blockquote><cite>8-bit ZOMBIE said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>lmt337 said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>8-bit ZOMBIE said:</cite> I honestly think that with tighter moderation (And more mods) and a few simple site changes, most of the problems with this site could be cleared up.</blockquote> How many mods are there now?</blockquote> Uno mods.</blockquote> no, im still moding as much as i can 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:50:13-04:00 2166201 1146 2009-08-25T14:50:13-04:00 Oops. Still, there could be more. I'm sure there's times when neither of them are here. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:50:28-04:00 2166221 8948 2009-08-25T14:50:28-04:00 some cant afford to pay, and this site is a decent place to get work out there. maybe just tell everyone to stop chatting shit all the time and make some designs. like promotion, funny shit and important stuff is cool. but if the talk section was more organised maybe people wouldnt spend so much time on it if you have to click extra things. i know i wouldnt. i see alot of people who moan about the sites uses these days are the old skoolers. and thats fair, undoubtedly was more full of talent previously, WHEN YALL WERE POSTING TEES. itd be nice to see more shit posted from the big names. basically mutha fucka i aint got money pay no fee, me ghetto 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:50:41-04:00 2166231 19771 2009-08-25T14:50:41-04:00 <blockquote><cite>derekdeal said:</cite> no, im still moding as much as i can</blockquote> Sorry man, forgot that you were a mod too. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:51:06-04:00 2166241 8948 2009-08-25T14:51:11-04:00 <blockquote><cite>quakerninja said:</cite> It's a behavioral issue. People get pounced on for asking simple questions, or for posting in the wrong place, or come in thinking they are the shit and are told they are not and get butthurt. It's been a while sense I have seen a warm welcome for any noobs. Maybe the 1 year olds here can stop being so defensive and learn to share Emptees with the noobs. Or are you talking about the hopeless fucktards that just don't care? If it's a hopeless fucktard just delete them, they are flawed people you can't talk to and need to leave the planet post hast.</blockquote> ^^ agreed. there is a sort of high school cafeteria 'us versus them' mentality here which is a slight turnoff. i've been guilty of joining in on the shenanigans every once in awhile but I have purposely forced myself not to come here so often because of the negativity. I come here to see cool new tee designs and to hopefully increase my t-shirt wardrobe from all the cool companies here, not read flame wars. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:52:29-04:00 2166261 12224 2009-08-25T14:52:29-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Matt Willmott said:</cite> What about just having things approved before they become visible on site? That includes profiles. You could sign up and provide links, give your reasons for wanting to become a member etc etc and if the mods thought you were clearly just going to cause trouble with your attitude or whatnot, they could deny your request to become a member.</blockquote> I think thats an interesting idea... but I'm not sure if that totally solves the problem or creates a different conflict in choosing who gets in or what gets approved... I dont know haha. It could work 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:53:01-04:00 2166271 600 2009-08-25T14:53:01-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Matt Willmott said:</cite> What about just having things approved before they become visible on site? That includes profiles. You could sign up and provide links, give your reasons for wanting to become a member etc etc and if the mods thought you were clearly just going to cause trouble with your attitude or whatnot, they could deny your request to become a member.</blockquote> If people don't mind putting in the work to approve someone, this could work brilliantly. I'd do it. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:54:19-04:00 2166291 2329 2009-08-25T14:54:41-04:00 <blockquote><cite>LitoQ said:</cite> What about an "Ignore" feature ( just another idea tossed into the mix ) Like where I could ignore a user entirely and none of their posts/tees/comments would ever show for me?</blockquote> I know there's trollblocker software out there somewhere. haven't used it myself but it exists 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:54:47-04:00 2166301 12224 2009-08-25T14:54:47-04:00 <blockquote><cite>derekdeal said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>8-bit ZOMBIE said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>lmt337 said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>8-bit ZOMBIE said:</cite> I honestly think that with tighter moderation (And more mods) and a few simple site changes, most of the problems with this site could be cleared up.</blockquote> How many mods are there now?</blockquote> Uno mods.</blockquote> no, im still moding as much as i can</blockquote> I think the major gripe at the moment is noob questions, threads, tees, etc. With more mods and tighter moderation as 8-bit suggests maybe that would be a start. Not knocking Dobi or Deal, there is a shitload of stuff to moderate on, cant be easy. Maybe a few more mods could help. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:55:09-04:00 2166311 28701 2009-08-25T14:55:09-04:00 I'm in agreement with the small fee. be it annual or one time. I visit emptees more than any other site, so i kinda see it like an awesome online magazine, that i can participate in, ive cut back on viewing just because of all the non-sense and douchery. It would be worth some sort of fee to keep this sort of stuff away from emptees. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:56:11-04:00 2166321 9099 2009-08-25T14:58:14-04:00 <blockquote><cite>RustyEight said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Matt Willmott said:</cite> What about just having things approved before they become visible on site? That includes profiles. You could sign up and provide links, give your reasons for wanting to become a member etc etc and if the mods thought you were clearly just going to cause trouble with your attitude or whatnot, they could deny your request to become a member.</blockquote> If people don't mind putting in the work to approve someone, this could work brilliantly. I'd do it.</blockquote> I dunno. That just feels so elitist. I wouldn't have been able to become a member of this site if that were the case. Not to mention HOURS of (unpaid) work for the mods. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:56:30-04:00 2166331 8948 2009-08-25T14:56:30-04:00 I'd offer, but I'm a king-a-hole. I'd alienate people because of my liberal use of the ban hammer. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:56:59-04:00 2166351 5738 2009-08-25T14:56:59-04:00 <blockquote><cite>8-bit ZOMBIE said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>RustyEight said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Matt Willmott said:</cite> What about just having things approved before they become visible on site? That includes profiles. You could sign up and provide links, give your reasons for wanting to become a member etc etc and if the mods thought you were clearly just going to cause trouble with your attitude or whatnot, they could deny your request to become a member.</blockquote> If people don't mind putting in the work to approve someone, this could work brilliantly. I'd do it.</blockquote> I dunno. That just feels so elitist. I wouldn't have been able to become a member of this site if that were the case. Not to mention HOURS of (unpaid) work for the mods.</blockquote> I run an invite only, approval based site. It takes me a few minutes a week to approve people. It ain't that big a deal. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:57:41-04:00 2166361 5738 2009-08-25T14:57:41-04:00 I think limits are the best/easy solution. -Rules in the talk section. -Less t-shirt designs post per day. -More mods. If they cry to much about not getting loves or posting stupid threads, delete their account. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:58:07-04:00 2166371 6279 2009-08-25T14:58:07-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Joey said:</cite> i really didn't read all of this, but i would not pay to hang out on a website. i don't care how good it is.</blockquote> thank you 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:58:10-04:00 2166381 9184 2009-08-25T14:58:10-04:00 Seriously just have me do it, I'm on this site constantly anyway. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:58:27-04:00 2166391 2329 2009-08-25T14:58:37-04:00 sorry, didnt realise it was serious posts only. I dont think it can be solved. I think a vast majority of the problem dont realise they are the problem. I learn more from seeing who dont post in 'drama' threads than who do. I believe the things that need to be said, and should be heard, are being said and heard by those clever enough not to be saying it on here. we need the poor tees and the shitty threads- as in the same way what defines a drawing of a hand is the space around it- what defines a good tee is the poor ones. We live by comparison. I think the problems are not bad designs or bad threads, those can be dealt with by simply ignoring them. I think the problem is something else. And this soemthing else is whats being talked about behind closed 'doors' (whats a good computer/web analogy of that? behind closed chat room doors? answers on a postcard). maybe somethings should be said out loud? I dont know- there are a few good comments on this thread. mobs, like water, run thier own course. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:58:29-04:00 2166401 2802 2009-08-25T14:59:22-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Frenden said:</cite> I run an invite only, approval based site. It takes me a few minutes a week to approve people. It ain't that big a deal.</blockquote> I don't know how popular your site is Ray, but imagine all the people that join this site daily! 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:58:45-04:00 2166411 8948 2009-08-25T14:58:45-04:00 I think $1 per month and joining by invite only would be cool. Maybe the money collected could go to the mods who then have to cycle through all the invite requests. I think the shitty designs that are being posted could cause emptees to loses credibility to businesses out there looking for artists. emptees has been great and I'd hate to see it go down the shitter 69321 Post 2009-08-25T14:59:39-04:00 2166421 4725 2009-08-25T14:59:39-04:00 I like the monthly membership fee but there must be regulations. -- A paying member gets all the privileges we have now. (Talk Section, Posting Tees, Resources Etc.) -- Non - Paying Members/Clients Etc. Can only lurk and contact the members for work. They cannot participate, create multiple accounts and mess around. Kyle is right on everything Emptees is too a lot of people. People saying they won't come here any more is crap. I'm going to be honest.. I think I've learned more on Emptees about design then I did at my 2 Years at Brooks College in Long Beach. My bachelors degree is worthless in comparison to what a lot of you have to offer on here and that is priceless to me and I'm sure to a lot of you. All this B.S. that goes on in the talk section sucks but I agree with WOTTO on how the moderators could be tougher/harder and that's it. Doing both of these together will really make a huge difference. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:03:04-04:00 2166431 13561 2009-08-25T15:03:04-04:00 I love emptees, its a huge resource but i would never pay for it. I dont think just because you pay it will change, there will still be annoying members, stupid posts and people who dont follow the rules. Indielabs are never gonna implement anything like this, it would take too much time. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:03:43-04:00 2166461 10852 2009-08-25T15:03:43-04:00 so many thoughts on this, i'll try to keep it brief: 1. First, what is the "mission statement" of this site? Is it supposed to be a small knit group of artists to showcase their work to potential buyers? Is it a place for people to come discuss the t-shirt design business, including resources & techniques for success? Is it an online hangout spot for like-minded people to have fun? You can't really make any decision until that is established. 2. Regardless of the purpose of this site, IndieLabs will never ever ever charge a fee, even if it's $1. It's completely counter-productive to their goal, to make money. You start filtering out people, traffic goes down, and they are unable to charge as much for advertising. 3. About this limiting/moderating what tee designs get submitted...again, it depends on the purpose of this site, but c'mon there are always going to be people of varied skills. What you call "doodle design shirts" may very well be someone's hard work. Instead of deleting them, tell them what they could do to improve (again, assuming that's part of the mission statement for emptees) 4. Use the Golden Rule. If you don't want drama or idiotic behavior on the site, then don't instigate or perpetuate it. 5. Moderate hard. If you see assholes like "The Redemption Song" doing nothing but stirring up shit, ban his ass. I came here 6-7 months ago fresh on the scene. I've designed and subbed a couple of shirts that most likely would fall into the "not so great" category. I post silly threads. I post kitten pictures. And I've met so many great people on here...Emptees isn't broke, there's just a couple of drunks at the bar that need to be kicked out. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:06:03-04:00 2166481 11937 2009-08-25T15:06:03-04:00 the new members have shitty posts and the old members have shitty posts sometimes but you know what paying a dollar a month or paying 20 a month will not solve shit lol its not big deal most of us are adults either we can ignore it or we can kill ourselves because thats life it doesnt matter where you go or who you know in this world people are always going to say shitty things and do shitty things 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:06:19-04:00 2166491 9184 2009-08-25T15:06:19-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Joey said:</cite> i really didn't read all of this, but i would not pay to hang out on a website. i don't care how good it is.</blockquote> Your making a mockery of these precedings! 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:07:25-04:00 2166501 664 2009-08-25T15:07:37-04:00 <blockquote><cite>ShirtFight.com said:</cite> so many thoughts on this, i'll try to keep it brief: 1. First, what is the "mission statement" of this site? Is it supposed to be a small knit group of artists to showcase their work to potential buyers? Is it a place for people to come discuss the t-shirt design business, including resources & techniques for success? Is it an online hangout spot for like-minded people to have fun? You can't really make any decision until that is established. 2. Regardless of the purpose of this site, IndieLabs will never ever ever charge a fee, even if it's $1. It's completely counter-productive to their goal, to make money. You start filtering out people, traffic goes down, and they are unable to charge as much for advertising. 3. About this limiting/moderating what tee designs get submitted...again, it depends on the purpose of this site, but c'mon there are always going to be people of varied skills. What you call "doodle design shirts" may very well be someone's hard work. Instead of deleting them, tell them what they could do to improve (again, assuming that's part of the mission statement for emptees) 4. Use the Golden Rule. If you don't want drama or idiotic behavior on the site, then don't instigate or perpetuate it. 5. Moderate hard. If you see assholes like "The Redemption Song" doing nothing but stirring up shit, ban his ass. I came here 6-7 months ago fresh on the scene. I've designed and subbed a couple of shirts that most likely would fall into the "not so great" category. I post silly threads. I post kitten pictures. And I've met so many great people on here...Emptees isn't broke, there's just a couple of drunks at the bar that need to be kicked out.</blockquote> The voice of reason. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:08:19-04:00 2166521 28701 2009-08-25T15:08:19-04:00 i ain't payin for shit. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:08:23-04:00 2166531 1106 2009-08-25T15:08:23-04:00 <blockquote><cite>ShirtFight.com said:</cite> so many thoughts on this, i'll try to keep it brief: 1. First, what is the "mission statement" of this site? Is it supposed to be a small knit group of artists to showcase their work to potential buyers? Is it a place for people to come discuss the t-shirt design business, including resources & techniques for success? Is it an online hangout spot for like-minded people to have fun? You can't really make any decision until that is established. 2. Regardless of the purpose of this site, IndieLabs will never ever ever charge a fee, even if it's $1. It's completely counter-productive to their goal, to make money. You start filtering out people, traffic goes down, and they are unable to charge as much for advertising. 3. About this limiting/moderating what tee designs get submitted...again, it depends on the purpose of this site, but c'mon there are always going to be people of varied skills. What you call "doodle design shirts" may very well be someone's hard work. Instead of deleting them, tell them what they could do to improve (again, assuming that's part of the mission statement for emptees) 4. Use the Golden Rule. If you don't want drama or idiotic behavior on the site, then don't instigate or perpetuate it. 5. Moderate hard. If you see assholes like "The Redemption Song" doing nothing but stirring up shit, ban his ass. I came here 6-7 months ago fresh on the scene. I've designed and subbed a couple of shirts that most likely would fall into the "not so great" category. I post silly threads. I post kitten pictures. And I've met so many great people on here...Emptees isn't broke, there's just a couple of drunks at the bar that need to be kicked out.</blockquote> Jud, you speak the truth. Love, <b>Q</b> 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:10:15-04:00 2166541 1498 2009-08-25T15:11:49-04:00 <blockquote><cite>LitoQ said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>ShirtFight.com said:</cite> so many thoughts on this, i'll try to keep it brief: 1. First, what is the "mission statement" of this site? Is it supposed to be a small knit group of artists to showcase their work to potential buyers? Is it a place for people to come discuss the t-shirt design business, including resources & techniques for success? Is it an online hangout spot for like-minded people to have fun? You can't really make any decision until that is established. 2. Regardless of the purpose of this site, IndieLabs will never ever ever charge a fee, even if it's $1. It's completely counter-productive to their goal, to make money. You start filtering out people, traffic goes down, and they are unable to charge as much for advertising. 3. About this limiting/moderating what tee designs get submitted...again, it depends on the purpose of this site, but c'mon there are always going to be people of varied skills. What you call "doodle design shirts" may very well be someone's hard work. Instead of deleting them, tell them what they could do to improve (again, assuming that's part of the mission statement for emptees) 4. Use the Golden Rule. If you don't want drama or idiotic behavior on the site, then don't instigate or perpetuate it. 5. Moderate hard. If you see assholes like "The Redemption Song" doing nothing but stirring up shit, ban his ass. I came here 6-7 months ago fresh on the scene. I've designed and subbed a couple of shirts that most likely would fall into the "not so great" category. I post silly threads. I post kitten pictures. And I've met so many great people on here...Emptees isn't broke, there's just a couple of drunks at the bar that need to be kicked out.</blockquote> Jud, you speak the truth. Love, Q</blockquote> Yes! Such a good post. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:11:10-04:00 2166551 8948 2009-08-25T15:11:28-04:00 Jud has some good points, but tbh i think the one thing that must be done harder is this: <blockquote><cite>ShirtFight.com said:</cite> 5. Moderate hard. If you see assholes like "The Redemption Song" doing nothing but stirring up shit, ban his ass.</blockquote> 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:11:26-04:00 2166561 6884 2009-08-25T15:11:43-04:00 the problem to me has always been the little clicks this site has no matter what you do the new people will be belittled by some people who seek approval be those in the "in crowd" and this is what causes most of the drama in my eyes 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:11:29-04:00 2166571 1486 2009-08-25T15:11:29-04:00 When someone posts a stupid thread, they often get way more replies than someone who posts a thread about something t-shirt related. Maybe the problem isn't with the 'noobs' who post random shit and ask dumb questions. But all the people who react to it instead of ignoring it. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:14:52-04:00 2166631 7093 2009-08-25T15:14:52-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Benzoe88 said:</cite> why not just ignore the shitty posts and the shitty tees its so simple i dont get whats the big deal if you see something that you dont like dont comment on it</blockquote> 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:15:58-04:00 2166641 26051 2009-08-25T15:15:58-04:00 <blockquote><cite>8-bit ZOMBIE said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Frenden said:</cite> I run an invite only, approval based site. It takes me a few minutes a week to approve people. It ain't that big a deal.</blockquote> I don't know how popular your site is Ray, but imagine all the people that join this site daily!</blockquote> Popularity/traffic isn't the goal of my site. Critiques by peers, furthering your skills, and being surrounded by good people, is. Traffic is not a friend to a private forum that has no ads. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:17:28-04:00 2166671 5738 2009-08-25T15:17:43-04:00 I think emptees is great, but needs some harder moderation and deletion of posts. Also, one wouldnt mind the ability to block people so as I never see their posts. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:19:12-04:00 2166711 2186 2009-08-25T15:19:12-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Will Petersen said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Benzoe88 said:</cite> why not just ignore the shitty posts and the shitty tees its so simple i dont get whats the big deal if you see something that you dont like dont comment on it</blockquote></blockquote> yep, thats what I do. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:20:04-04:00 2166731 600 2009-08-25T15:20:04-04:00 <blockquote><cite>ShirtFight.com said:</cite> so many thoughts on this, i'll try to keep it brief: 1. First, what is the "mission statement" of this site? Is it supposed to be a small knit group of artists to showcase their work to potential buyers? Is it a place for people to come discuss the t-shirt design business, including resources & techniques for success? Is it an online hangout spot for like-minded people to have fun? You can't really make any decision until that is established. 2. Regardless of the purpose of this site, IndieLabs will never ever ever charge a fee, even if it's $1. It's completely counter-productive to their goal, to make money. You start filtering out people, traffic goes down, and they are unable to charge as much for advertising. 3. About this limiting/moderating what tee designs get submitted...again, it depends on the purpose of this site, but c'mon there are always going to be people of varied skills. What you call "doodle design shirts" may very well be someone's hard work. Instead of deleting them, tell them what they could do to improve (again, assuming that's part of the mission statement for emptees) 4. Use the Golden Rule. If you don't want drama or idiotic behavior on the site, then don't instigate or perpetuate it. 5. Moderate hard. If you see assholes like "The Redemption Song" doing nothing but stirring up shit, ban his ass. I came here 6-7 months ago fresh on the scene. I've designed and subbed a couple of shirts that most likely would fall into the "not so great" category. I post silly threads. I post kitten pictures. And I've met so many great people on here...Emptees isn't broke, there's just a couple of drunks at the bar that need to be kicked out.</blockquote> excellent points Jud. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:20:38-04:00 2166741 9099 2009-08-25T15:20:38-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Truman325i said:</cite> I think emptees is great, but needs some harder moderation and deletion of posts. Also, one wouldnt mind the ability to block people so as I never see their posts.</blockquote> They have that on some other forums I go to. It's nice. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:20:58-04:00 2166751 5738 2009-08-25T15:20:58-04:00 <blockquote><cite>ShirtFight.com said:</cite> 3. About this limiting/moderating what tee designs get submitted...again, it depends on the purpose of this site, but c'mon there are always going to be people of varied skills. What you call "doodle design shirts" may very well be someone's hard work. Instead of deleting them, tell them what they could do to improve (again, assuming that's part of the mission statement for emptees) </blockquote> I agree. And adding my 2 cents - there is not enough of criticism on this site. I go to the tees section browsing stuff, and all I read is "yeah, awesome", "omg cooool", "colors are rad" etc. I mean come on.. Of course there's lots and lots of good shit, but sometimes even bigger guys like Alex Norman, Brandon Heart, Godmachine etc. post some desing that aren't THAT great, and I always try to point that in comments, maybe even start some discussion, but it fails everytime. And the same thing is with noobs like myself. I'd rather see a 100 comments poiting what is wrong/could be done better, than get 10 loves and think I did great but people are in hurry and don't have time to give me more. Simply without critiqe there is no progress, without progress we all get shitty tees, shitty tees gets no love, no love makes whine I don't know if I make sense here, but hell.. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:22:20-04:00 2166771 12580 2009-08-25T15:22:56-04:00 I'm glad dobi felt the need to call me out as a person that plagues this site.... I'm on my iPhone and not about to read everything, yet, but will the fee make the site private or just the ability to post private? 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:23:27-04:00 2166801 5678 2009-08-25T15:23:27-04:00 <blockquote><cite>dobi said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>jaynajaynajayna said:</cite> 1 tee a day... that is nuts. Unless you want super pros only that will not fly</blockquote> 1 tee per person silly.</blockquote> WHAT ABOUT RANDI??? 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:23:58-04:00 2166811 2712 2009-08-25T15:23:58-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Frenden said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Truman325i said:</cite> I think emptees is great, but needs some harder moderation and deletion of posts. Also, one wouldnt mind the ability to block people so as I never see their posts.</blockquote> They have that on some other forums I go to. It's nice.</blockquote> yeah, id love that one 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:24:19-04:00 2166821 1146 2009-08-25T15:24:19-04:00 <blockquote><cite>ShirtFight.com said:</cite> so many thoughts on this, i'll try to keep it brief: 1. First, what is the "mission statement" of this site? Is it supposed to be a small knit group of artists to showcase their work to potential buyers? Is it a place for people to come discuss the t-shirt design business, including resources & techniques for success? Is it an online hangout spot for like-minded people to have fun? You can't really make any decision until that is established. 2. Regardless of the purpose of this site, IndieLabs will never ever ever charge a fee, even if it's $1. It's completely counter-productive to their goal, to make money. You start filtering out people, traffic goes down, and they are unable to charge as much for advertising. 3. About this limiting/moderating what tee designs get submitted...again, it depends on the purpose of this site, but c'mon there are always going to be people of varied skills. What you call "doodle design shirts" may very well be someone's hard work. Instead of deleting them, tell them what they could do to improve (again, assuming that's part of the mission statement for emptees) 4. Use the Golden Rule. If you don't want drama or idiotic behavior on the site, then don't instigate or perpetuate it. 5. Moderate hard. If you see assholes like "The Redemption Song" doing nothing but stirring up shit, ban his ass. I came here 6-7 months ago fresh on the scene. I've designed and subbed a couple of shirts that most likely would fall into the "not so great" category. I post silly threads. I post kitten pictures. And I've met so many great people on here...Emptees isn't broke, there's just a couple of drunks at the bar that need to be kicked out.</blockquote> makes a lot of sense. I think harder moderation is a step in the right direction. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:26:36-04:00 2166851 2991 2009-08-25T15:26:36-04:00 <blockquote><cite>killerraspberry said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>ShirtFight.com said:</cite> 3. About this limiting/moderating what tee designs get submitted...again, it depends on the purpose of this site, but c'mon there are always going to be people of varied skills. What you call "doodle design shirts" may very well be someone's hard work. Instead of deleting them, tell them what they could do to improve (again, assuming that's part of the mission statement for emptees) </blockquote> I agree. There is not enough of criticism on this site. I go to the tees section browsing stuff, and all I read is "yeah, awesome", "omg cooool", "colors are rad" etc. I mean come on.. Of course there's lots and lots of good shit, but sometimes even bigger guys like Alex Norman, Brandon Heart, Godmachine etc. post some desing that aren't THAT great, and I always try to point that in comments, maybe even start some discussion, but it fails everytime. And the same thing is with noobs like myself. I'd rather see a 100 comments poiting what is wrong/could be done better, than get 10 loves and think I did great but people are in hurry and don't have time to give me more. Simply without critiqe there is no progress, without progress we all get shitty tees, shitty tees gets no love, no love makes whine I don't know if I make sense here, but hell..</blockquote> I've done 3 tees since I joined, all rushed, all pure shit. If you think I'm gonna give art advice to Godmachine, Mumford, etc you are crazy mister! I know what you mean, there should be more constructive criticism but I'll leave that to those more in the know than me. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:26:39-04:00 2166861 28701 2009-08-25T15:26:39-04:00 From a lurkers standpoint, I think paying $1-$3/month for sole membership to lurk is agreeable. Because as said before by Wotto, I do commision artists & I think as Emptee's as a catalog in my view - where I can pay $1/month to log on & search for designers for work. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:30:16-04:00 2166911 54061 2009-08-25T15:30:16-04:00 I like the invite only idea,If someone is willing to approve. If a fee is going to be added..If payment is really necessary, I don't think it should be a monthly fee, but a yearly fee. Not a lot of people will pay $5-$10 upfront to make an account that is active for a year until a payment is made again...money could go to a charity or to the ones who do all the work on the site. I think an Invite only is a solid idea though. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:30:23-04:00 2166921 5501 2009-08-25T15:30:23-04:00 One other point I'd like to make about Moderation...you can't Moderate without well defined rules. People have to be aware of what is and isn't tolerated on this site, and understand that failure to comply with those rules will result in moderation (of their comments, tee submissions, even their account). Put those rules in one sticky right at the top of the site and lock the thread. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:30:40-04:00 2166931 11937 2009-08-25T15:30:51-04:00 <blockquote><cite>ShirtFight.com said:</cite> One other point I'd like to make about Moderation...you can't Moderate without well defined rules. People have to be aware of what is and isn't tolerated on this site, and understand that failure to comply with those rules will result in moderation (of their comments, tee submissions, even their account). Put those rules in one sticky right at the top of the site and lock the thread.</blockquote> stop with the good idea smarty arse. ha! 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:33:14-04:00 2166971 2991 2009-08-25T15:33:14-04:00 <blockquote><cite>ShirtFight.com said:</cite> One other point I'd like to make about Moderation...you can't Moderate without well defined rules. People have to be aware of what is and isn't tolerated on this site, and understand that failure to comply with those rules will result in moderation (of their comments, tee submissions, even their account). Put those rules in one sticky right at the top of the site and lock the thread.</blockquote> I've said all this about 4 times now haha Like you Jud, i still think that's the best way to go firstly. Just proper guidelines and rules that members can see. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:33:35-04:00 2166981 6884 2009-08-25T15:33:35-04:00 <blockquote><cite>wotto said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>ShirtFight.com said:</cite> One other point I'd like to make about Moderation...you can't Moderate without well defined rules. People have to be aware of what is and isn't tolerated on this site, and understand that failure to comply with those rules will result in moderation (of their comments, tee submissions, even their account). Put those rules in one sticky right at the top of the site and lock the thread.</blockquote> stop with the good idea smarty arse. ha!</blockquote> LOL :) 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:34:16-04:00 2167011 11937 2009-08-25T15:34:16-04:00 Charging a fee seems novel but probably too much of a hassle for indie labs. I don't really post shirts ever anymore but I've been around for over a year and enjoy coming on here to learn and discuss shirt related topics. We all get wrapped up sometimes in pointless posts but I think a little heavier moderation would be best. Every forum deals with noob posts and we can't avoid them but charging seems superfulous 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:35:52-04:00 2167021 1271 2009-08-25T15:35:52-04:00 The phases of Emptees. Dumb questions. 1. Hello what's a Walcom, What's dpi mean, How are shirts made, Is illustrator better then Photoshop. ect Immature harmless fun 2. Die Motherfucker, Your a poo face, watch this video, kitty fart Immature harmful fun 3. I got fired because I clicked lemon party, I'm depressed or butthurt because I care what people think of me. Derogatory or racist remarks and so on. It's easy to just say don't get upset, but I have know way of knowing how what I say is going to make someone feel, It may be funny to me, but genuinely hurt someone's feelings. Got Screwed false alarm. 4. Help rip, I drew a shark and a boat yesterday, and I just saw a shark and a boat. Got screwed for real. 5. It looks the same, help please. Needs 6. Need a designer. 7. Need a buyer. 8. Need a vote. 9. Need an opinion Showing off. 10. look at my sketch. 11. Look at my face. 12. Look what I bought. If you bring a whip my butt attitude into a serious post, it's going to cause a fuss. I think a practical solution is a little personal restraint in how we interact with one another. There is a time and a place for everything. Use some good judgement. There is a fucktard way to say something and a polite way. I say we just try to play nice. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:38:10-04:00 2167091 506 2009-08-25T15:38:10-04:00 I read like half of this, but in all seriousness, I think charging $1 or $2 a month is good - people who are serious about it don't have to sacrifice big change and trolls will be discouraged. Requiring everyone to post a tee though I think is less applicable. What about headhunters who come on here looking for designers? I already said what about Randi, and yes she is a marketing whiz/trend hunter, does graphic design and junk but not an illustrator/apparel designer. Related fields but not exact. And I think that's good - I like coming across other art/trend/design related sites that people bring to my attention on here. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:40:18-04:00 2167121 2712 2009-08-25T15:40:18-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Frenden said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>8-bit ZOMBIE said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Frenden said:</cite> I run an invite only, approval based site. It takes me a few minutes a week to approve people. It ain't that big a deal.</blockquote> I don't know how popular your site is Ray, but imagine all the people that join this site daily!</blockquote> Popularity/traffic isn't the goal of my site. Critiques by peers, furthering your skills, and being surrounded by good people, is. Traffic is not a friend to a private forum that has no ads.</blockquote> I was in no way trying to diss your site Ray, sorry if it came off that way. I was just trying to emphasize that I think evaluating the background of every person that wanted to join Emptees (In the way Matt Willmont stated) would be a ton of work. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:45:33-04:00 2167181 8948 2009-08-25T15:46:48-04:00 <blockquote><cite>derekdeal said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Frenden said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Truman325i said:</cite> I think emptees is great, but needs some harder moderation and deletion of posts. Also, one wouldnt mind the ability to block people so as I never see their posts.</blockquote> They have that on some other forums I go to. It's nice.</blockquote> yeah, id love that one</blockquote> thats a sweet idea. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:50:19-04:00 2167221 600 2009-08-25T15:50:19-04:00 <blockquote><cite>quakerninja said:</cite>There is a fucktard way to say something and a polite way. I say we just try to play nice.</blockquote> sorry, i enjoy being a dickhead and will probably always be that way. i think a neutered emptees would be boring and probably turn away just as many people as the crap that is going on now. (crap that isn't even that bad) 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:51:53-04:00 2167241 1106 2009-08-25T15:52:30-04:00 True If Emptees is to hardcore for some new members they can always find what they need to know on google. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:53:59-04:00 2167361 506 2009-08-25T15:53:59-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Joey said:</cite> i really didn't read all of this, but i would not pay to hang out on a website. i don't care how good it is.</blockquote> This. I have a link to Emptees on my site. I don't expect to get paid for it. I do it because I like the site. I shouldn't have to pay to hang out here. If that happened I would simply move on to, or start, some other site. It has nothing to do with not being able to afford the fee but more to do with the principle. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:55:25-04:00 2167391 1661 2009-08-25T15:55:25-04:00 <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>quakerninja said:</cite>There is a fucktard way to say something and a polite way. I say we just try to play nice.</blockquote> sorry, i enjoy being a dickhead and will probably always be that way. i think a neutered emptees would be boring and probably turn away just as many people as the crap that is going on now. (crap that isn't even that bad)</blockquote> i think its one thing to be dickheadish, but if you NEVER contribute anything other than negativity, then its just fuel to the fire. I think blunt people are a must for any type of forum situation to be awesome. people like you SWH obviously contribute to emptees. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T15:59:09-04:00 2167481 9099 2009-08-25T15:59:56-04:00 what do you guys think the problems are here? 69321 Post 2009-08-25T16:00:00-04:00 2167521 2802 2009-08-25T16:02:08-04:00 <blockquote><cite>godmachine said:</cite> why stop the noobies? we were all noobies once. Like I say- noobies are not the problem here.</blockquote> Let's go for beers, what do you drink usually GM? 69321 Post 2009-08-25T16:01:05-04:00 2167561 11937 2009-08-25T16:01:05-04:00 There it is. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T16:01:13-04:00 2167571 1498 2009-08-25T16:01:13-04:00 <blockquote><cite>godmachine said:</cite> why stop the noobies? we were all noobies once. Like I say- noobies are not the problem here.</blockquote> yeah I should change that to fucktards 69321 Post 2009-08-25T16:01:27-04:00 2167581 2991 2009-08-25T16:01:27-04:00 maybe if we said exactly what we thought the issues were we could start addressing them. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T16:03:52-04:00 2167611 2802 2009-08-25T16:03:52-04:00 let's go streaking 69321 Post 2009-08-25T16:05:51-04:00 2167631 782 2009-08-25T16:05:51-04:00 i personally wouldnt mind having to pay a fee. being that i am so new to the game i have already learned so much from the site, plus to have so many AMAZING artists look and critique a design or give advice it is totally worth it. i'm not saying YEAH CHARGE A FEE! but i also wouldnt want all the amazing talent that has gathered here to leave because there are alot of dickheads and idiots (i hope that i am not considered one of those...) ruining it. i have nothing but the utmost respect for everyone on here. i would like the site stay alive and to me i'd do whatever is neccsary to be a part of it...within reason. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T16:06:11-04:00 2167641 9741 2009-08-25T16:06:11-04:00 I got a fair way through this and had to stop. $1/month is nothing. Is there anyway that the site could be made tees, loves and profiles views for free accounts, posting and talk for $1 a month? That way you separate the mess from the work. As a tee fan, I have bought stuff because of this site (thanks wotto, pandy cane (greg abott), miles to go (GM) and quakerninja), but as a Graphic Designer who isn't really into tee designing (but loes the art), if I have to pay, I would swing by and may not pay the fee. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T16:07:43-04:00 2167671 9930 2009-08-25T16:07:43-04:00 How about...in order to post on Emptees you have to buy a shirt from <a href="http://www.shirtfight.com">ShirtFight</a>??? :D 69321 Post 2009-08-25T16:09:22-04:00 2167711 11937 2009-08-25T16:09:22-04:00 Maybe is could be set up where anyone could comment and love, but only paid accounts could post tees and create talk posts. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T16:10:40-04:00 2167751 1368 2009-08-25T16:10:40-04:00 <blockquote><cite>justgeoff said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Joey said:</cite> i really didn't read all of this, but i would not pay to hang out on a website. i don't care how good it is.</blockquote> This. I have a link to Emptees on my site. I don't expect to get paid for it. I do it because I like the site. I shouldn't have to pay to hang out here. If that happened I would simply move on to, or start, some other site. It has nothing to do with not being able to afford the fee but more to do with the principle.</blockquote> this. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T16:11:30-04:00 2167811 12090 2009-08-25T16:11:30-04:00 <blockquote><cite>ShirtFight.com said:</cite> How about...in order to post on Emptees you have to buy a shirt from <a href="http://www.shirtfight.com">ShirtFight</a>??? :D</blockquote> your avatar goes perfectly with this hahaha. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T16:11:37-04:00 2167831 600 2009-08-25T16:11:44-04:00 totd in order to post in talk LOL 69321 Post 2009-08-25T16:12:33-04:00 2167851 7336 2009-08-25T16:12:33-04:00 Edit button for first post. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T16:14:46-04:00 2167911 7179 2009-08-25T16:15:03-04:00 I can't really be an anti fucktard as I myself am an occasional fucktard. It would be hypocritical of me to take part in any witch hunt. Just what are people trying to do here today. Start some sort of elite Emptees where it's only people you like. What's the fun in that. This whole post is bitchy in a way. I don't know where this idea of the golden age of Emptees has come from, Remember Adolph Jackson, or the scores of other legendary douches. It's the same as it's always been, just more of everything. Good and bad. The population has increased it's to be expected. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T16:14:55-04:00 2167921 506 2009-08-25T16:22:37-04:00 How about we round up all the Jews and put them in concentration camps? I know, this is supposed to be a serious thread but we need some levity. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T16:20:27-04:00 2167981 1661 2009-08-25T16:22:54-04:00 maybe i'll change fucktard to quakerninja? 69321 Post 2009-08-25T16:23:36-04:00 2168011 2991 2009-08-25T16:23:36-04:00 <blockquote><cite>justgeoff said:</cite> How about we round up all the Jews and put them in concentration camps?</blockquote> Yeah and why are we giving Randi the chance to speak, she´s a women. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T16:24:25-04:00 2168021 2879 2009-08-25T16:24:25-04:00 <blockquote><cite>gaunty said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>justgeoff said:</cite> How about we round up all the Jews and put them in concentration camps?</blockquote> Yeah and why are we giving Randi the chance to speak, she´s a women.</blockquote> I bet it's just a dude joking around with a fake female account. Everyone know women don't have the mental capacity to operate a computer. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T16:25:49-04:00 2168031 1661 2009-08-25T16:26:09-04:00 Not quite as sinister as all that, but any sort of us vs. them is bad news, live and let live. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T16:26:32-04:00 2168061 506 2009-08-25T16:26:32-04:00 <blockquote><cite>gaunty said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>justgeoff said:</cite> How about we round up all the Jews and put them in concentration camps?</blockquote> Yeah and why are we giving Randi the chance to speak, she´s a women.</blockquote> Because I'm an tall, blonde hair, blue eyed Aryan woman that's why. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T16:27:11-04:00 2168101 3934 2009-08-25T16:27:15-04:00 do not be perfunctory of the upcoming talent. they might be screwed up just by seeing the monthly charge. $1 is definitely nothing considering the way we could post tees and have some great resources in it, but does anyone know that emptees was that great ?. people might just landed here coincidentally from a stupid google search. and they could just go away instead of signing up since they've known nothing about this site. how about a free tour of the site ?. so those stone-blinded people can decide whether they're signing or not . it looks like a fucking porn site. shit 69321 Post 2009-08-25T16:31:26-04:00 2168191 52881 2009-08-25T16:32:03-04:00 I can promise to do my best not to get butthurt anymore...that's a start... I'll do my best, but I am a bit of a schizo so we'll see how it goes... love me (couldn't resist)... I think a certain number of t's per day is a good start...there are a ton of submissions and it's pretty hard to keep up with all of them... a probationary period is always one way to go... 69321 Post 2009-08-25T16:35:58-04:00 2168241 33471 2009-08-25T16:35:58-04:00 Reading all 200+ answers to this thread, there seems to be 3 differant view points and outcomes. 1) Pay to Play Good; Get rid of all trolls ect, people not want to waste money, money could go towards something. Bad; Become too hardcore, people feeling that as they paid, they deserve loves and stuff, advertising going down, too much work for indie labs. Probability of it being done; Not very. 2) Invites Good; Once again, less trolls ect, closer knit community. Bad; hard to get into if you don't have the right portfolio, lots of work for moderaters. However i feel like both of these won't work. This SITE if perfect, its the community that is messed up. WE need to work as a collective to ignore the shit, be more helpfull, leff brownosing, and generally not as argumentative. WE need some defined rules, what can and can't be posted, where, search/links to helpful topics that WORK (better). Fair enough that people like kyle (not calling you out, first example) like to be dicks to other, but that is purly for their enjoyment, and adds NOTHING but negative energy to this community. If they want to put potentional employment after be a E-thug, its their fault. I don't want to be (in the future) in the situation where clients don't want to come and look here, because people that have a constant souce of income are dicks and ruin it for the rest of us. I feel that is the dicks are ignored/steered in the right direction, they will ether get bored/answers and leave, or stay around long enough to actually mesh with us. (bar a few like the redeption song, who should just be refered to the rules, then banned. Lots on random thoughts. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T16:45:04-04:00 2168301 5982 2009-08-25T16:45:04-04:00 Hey guys, First off, thanks to everyone for taking the time to provide such great feedback. You guys are truly what makes Emptees awesome, and even though we try to stay out of the way, we want to do what we can to ensure it remains a site you love being a part of. With that said, Emptees clearly has some issues that need solutions - both on your end and on ours. As we all know, something needs to be done about the noise, drama, and overall quality of interaction on the site. We know that Emptees has helped many of you meet new colleagues and friends, as well as grow your abilities and your business, and we want to continue to improve how effective Emptees is at doing that. There are going to be idiots on any forum, but there are certainly some better ways to go about mitigating that, as you've all pointed out. One of the other reasons I believe that Emptees has been so successful, is that there's a full-time company behind it. We've spent a lot of time designing and developing it to stand apart from other art communities, and it will take a lot more design and development to make the changes it needs. However, Emptees is also at a bit of a crossroads internally for us, because it is growing to be so large. The site is currently doing around 4 million pageviews per month, and shows no signs of slowing down. That's obviously great news, but it costs us a lot of time, money, and resources to keep it going. To recoup that money, most high traffic sites plaster ads everywhere. Unfortunately, as you can see by the lack of ads plastered everywhere, we're design freaks and that just doesn't sit right with us. So as is, Emptees is barely making enough money to pay for its own hosting. So this means we need to figure out a way of making it so we can afford to spend time improving Emptees. I'm excited to see that so many of you have benefited from the site that you're volunteering to pay a signup fee. We've considered this option as well, and we think it's a great alternative to a bunch of ads because it (hopefully) gives people a stake in keeping Emptees awesome and helps keep out some of the riffraff. We're still taking this all in, and we'll keep reading all of your ideas, but I wanted to let you guys all know where we're at with it, and to thank you again for helping us improve Emptees. Matt 69321 Post 2009-08-25T16:48:11-04:00 2168351 1 2009-08-25T16:48:11-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Joey said:</cite> i really didn't read all of this, but i would not pay to hang out on a website. i don't care how good it is.</blockquote> Agreed, this is a community, with both good and bad members, but a community none-the-less. who knows who would have been deterred in the beginning from coming here, maybe some of our most valued members currently. Also, being let in based on your portfolio seems a little ridiculous. There are so many different types of people here. As a screen printer, would I have to design a shirt just to be allowed continued access to the site? Johnny cupcakes has never posted a single design but would any of you want to see him go? There is so much more to this site than just t-designs, as any good community should be, yes sometimes the other stuff can become a distraction, but if it's not interesting to you, don't respond to it, there is no rule saying everyone must comment on every post. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T16:48:51-04:00 2168371 1644 2009-08-25T16:48:51-04:00 Dammit, my rant just got 1-up'ed by matt, but thanks man. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T16:50:20-04:00 2168401 5982 2009-08-25T17:00:19-04:00 There have been a lot of good ideas in this post, But more control makes me worry a bit about the site. Emptees is truly a one of a kind site in the way that really is zero moderation, for the most part people are very supportive and helpful, which is really amazing and rare for most forums. Also i absolutely love the way that not everything is broken up into categories in the talk section. Every time you visit emptees you never know what you are going to be reading, which is usually a good thing. It is really unfortunate that some people are coming here and ruining the vibe for everyone, i just dont know if increasing rules is the way to go. A nominal fee could be a good way around this, but lets just face it if some people just dont realize that they are assholes and are going to show up and comment regardless. Bottom line, this site is incredible, yes maybe its going through a rough patch but i really think it will pull through on its own. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T16:50:31-04:00 2168411 10347 2009-08-25T16:50:31-04:00 <i>How about...in order to post on Emptees you have to buy a shirt from ShirtFight???</i> hahahahaha 69321 Post 2009-08-25T16:52:57-04:00 2168491 9381 2009-08-25T16:52:57-04:00 I think invite-only is a terrible idea. I wasn't invited here. If I had to invite people and I was worried about someone I invited making me look like an asshole, I wouldn't invite alot of the people who are regulars here. The truth is, that a well written an organized FAQ page with links to common threads would fix most of this. Emptees already directs you to a welcome page when you sign up. If you simply redirected to a more useful "Read this before you post" page, it would fix alot of the crap. It could have links to wacom threads, questions about printing, questions about what shirt is the best, whatever. It could lay down some ground rules for behavior so that mods could moderate according to rules and not personal taste. It doesn't have to be a Sticky, but it needs to be in the navigation somewhere. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T16:53:26-04:00 2168501 997 2009-08-25T16:53:26-04:00 <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> I think invite-only is a terrible idea. I wasn't invited here. If I had to invite people and I was worried about someone I invited making me look like an asshole, I wouldn't invite alot of the people who are regulars here. The truth is, that a well written an organized FAQ page with links to common threads would fix most of this. Emptees already directs you to a welcome page when you sign up. If you simply redirected to a more useful "Read this before you post" page, it would fix alot of the crap. It could have links to wacom threads, questions about printing, questions about what shirt is the best, whatever. It could lay down some ground rules for behavior so that mods could moderate according to rules and not personal taste. It doesn't have to be a Sticky, but it needs to be in the navigation somewhere.</blockquote> Agreed, this is the best idea so far. would make LMGTFY useless though. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T16:54:50-04:00 2168521 5982 2009-08-25T16:54:50-04:00 Thanks for the update, Matt. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T16:58:05-04:00 2168621 5738 2009-08-25T16:58:05-04:00 This been said, everyone seems more helpful since this post has appeared. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T17:00:11-04:00 2168641 5982 2009-08-25T17:00:11-04:00 Get more moderators on the site to ensure no multiple posts and people littering the site? just an idea. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T17:02:36-04:00 2168681 11226 2009-08-25T17:02:36-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Callum_Green said:</cite> This been said, everyone seems more helpful since this post has appeared.</blockquote> Some people have probably realised that if we want this site to be awesome and get better, it's up to the members to contribute. If they haven't realised, then they should. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T17:02:59-04:00 2168701 6884 2009-08-25T17:02:59-04:00 I think the best option would be for emptees to only sparingly have time periods where people can register, instead of letting people register all day every day so only those serious about joining the site will seek out the time/date to register or have a waiting period until new members can post new posts and comments 69321 Post 2009-08-25T17:04:33-04:00 2168741 5926 2009-08-25T17:04:33-04:00 <blockquote><cite>chech95 said:</cite> I think the best option would be for emptees to only sparingly have time periods where people can register, instead of letting people register all day every day so only those serious about joining the site will seek out the time/date to register or have a waiting period until new members can post new posts and comments</blockquote> Good ideas, but would it be every friday (for example) or like 4 times a year? 69321 Post 2009-08-25T17:06:24-04:00 2168761 5982 2009-08-25T17:06:24-04:00 Idea for shirts: make a "new for you" button that shows new shirts based on your previous preferences/shirts you loved before/shirts that other people love that loved the same sort of tees you loved. A bit like ffffound works. Could make shirt section more interesting to browse in. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T17:08:41-04:00 2168781 7859 2009-08-25T17:08:41-04:00 jus get more mods and delete this boring ass thread and let things pan out, im tired and blazed this waaay over my head right now. paying! to show art you created! sounds like some bullshit to me man, pretty much all i use this for, part from commenting shit that needs commenting. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T17:10:09-04:00 2168801 19771 2009-08-25T17:10:09-04:00 a waiting period is a very good idea, there really is no down side to this, It allows the new user to get a feel for the site, it also going to detour people from signing up just to post some asshole remark, 69321 Post 2009-08-25T17:10:27-04:00 2168811 10347 2009-08-25T17:10:27-04:00 i think the 1$ fee is good, maybe save the money and print shirt of the year if it hasn't already been printed and sell them for cheep to the members that pay? almost like a limited edition for emptees only? that and what wotto and frenden said you guys will sort it out im sure 69321 Post 2009-08-25T17:11:53-04:00 2168831 8874 2009-08-25T17:11:53-04:00 How about making Emptees a private site and need a membership to even get in. Have it maybe be free for people that were on the site 6 months ago and like $1 a month for people that joined now up to 6 months ago and anyone from now on would be like $5 a month. That way you keep the trolls and hopefully it will cut down on rips because the public won't be able to view tees without paying. i think could benefit everyone on this site by doing this. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T17:12:02-04:00 2168841 1067 2009-08-25T17:12:02-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Time Without the E said:</cite> How about making Emptees a private site and need a membership to even get in. Have it maybe be free for people that were on the site 6 months ago and like $1 a month for people that joined now up to 6 months ago and anyone from now on would be like $5 a month. That way you keep the trolls and hopefully it will cut down on rips because the public won't be able to view tees without paying. i think could benefit everyone on this site by doing this.</blockquote> That would be a ridiculous way to change things. You can't just say that anyone who isn't here already gets treated with massively different rules than we got. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T17:13:05-04:00 2168871 6884 2009-08-25T17:13:05-04:00 we need to do something bout the rips for sure if it's an automatic watermark or something i don't know but something need to be done to prevent all the rips 69321 Post 2009-08-25T17:14:31-04:00 2168911 8874 2009-08-25T17:15:45-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Matt Willmott said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Time Without the E said:</cite> How about making Emptees a private site and need a membership to even get in. Have it maybe be free for people that were on the site 6 months ago and like $1 a month for people that joined now up to 6 months ago and anyone from now on would be like $5 a month. That way you keep the trolls and hopefully it will cut down on rips because the public won't be able to view tees without paying. i think could benefit everyone on this site by doing this.</blockquote> That would be a ridiculous way to change things. You can't just say that anyone who isn't here already gets treated with massively different rules than we got.</blockquote> Not to mention, you want the public to be able to see our designs. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T17:15:04-04:00 2168941 1661 2009-08-25T17:15:04-04:00 faux shantz'z wtf 69321 Post 2009-08-25T17:20:56-04:00 2169081 1249 2009-08-25T17:20:56-04:00 shaux-ntz godmachaux mumfaux 69321 Post 2009-08-25T17:23:15-04:00 2169121 2870 2009-08-25T17:23:15-04:00 I can understand a few of the different perspectives here, but in my experience I enjoyed this site much more when I first joined . I found that everyone was friendlier and honestly enjoyed visiting and learning from everyone on here. Now I get on check the site out briefly and leave, I also dont post much because I dont want to feel shitty because someone had a bad day and wants to call me out or make fun of me , no one really wants that in a community and It takes the professionalism away . Hahah I mean everyone always had fun but there seems to have been a certain level of professionalism here that is now gone 69321 Post 2009-08-25T17:23:36-04:00 2169141 5709 2009-08-25T17:23:36-04:00 <blockquote><cite>godmachine said:</cite> maybe if we said exactly what we thought the issues were we could start addressing them.</blockquote> exactly. The fact that no one wants to go into the exact nature of the problems show there is a problem !! haha 69321 Post 2009-08-25T17:24:45-04:00 2169181 6159 2009-08-25T17:25:24-04:00 I got into it... "This SITE if perfect, its the community that is messed up. WE need to work as a collective to ignore the shit, be more helpfull, leff brownosing, and generally not as argumentative. WE need some defined rules, what can and can’t be posted, where, search/links to helpful topics that WORK (better). Fair enough that people like kyle (not calling you out, first example) like to be dicks to other, but that is purly for their enjoyment, and adds NOTHING but negative energy to this community. If they want to put potentional employment after be a E-thug, its their fault. I don’t want to be (in the future) in the situation where clients don’t want to come and look here, because people that have a constant souce of income are dicks and ruin it for the rest of us. I feel that is the dicks are ignored/steered in the right direction, they will ether get bored/answers and leave, or stay around long enough to actually mesh with us. (bar a few like the redeption song, who should just be refered to the rules, then banned. " 69321 Post 2009-08-25T17:29:06-04:00 2169291 5982 2009-08-25T17:29:06-04:00 hi there... i started posting here a while back (a year or so?) then went back into lurk mode for a long time. i dunno, my outsider opinion is that the tee section seems ignored, and only the regulars who are known by everyone else have their designs payed attention to....which makes sense, since the tee section is inundated with crap. easier to just check out profiles of designers you like and seeing whats new with them than swimming thru shit designs by highschoolers. sorry, im over generalizing and somewhat shit talking, but i think there's some grains of truth to that. i think it would be beneficial to somehow decrease the amount of crap designs being filled in the tee section, while sort of making it mandatory for the more established designers to participate in critiquing others shirt design. now i dont mean to sound harsh like "all these fucking shit designers are fucking up the tee section" but...it feels like designers new to designing should lurk more and just observe for a while and read instead of getting all eager to pump out designs and post them to the tee section. me included, hence my lurking status as of late. i dunno, basically i think right now the tee section is ignored, while this message board section is the main focal point, and perhaps it should be the other way around...well, nothing should be ignored, but i mean the emphasis should be placed on the tee section. maybe. perhaps. i dunno. ok, perhaps have a "Lurk Time Limit" where in order to post to the site, you need to have just read/lurked/observed for a time period before you can post to the tee section and message board. i think this will decrease the amount of "crap" designs, because it seems like tons of people just jump the gun without learning about the tshirt design culture and this community...making them be observers for a month before being able to post will decrease the amount of shit regulars have gripes with. and maybe have something set up where you have to critique a certain number of shirts before posting your own shirt designs? just throwing some ideas out there, most of which are probably crap. sorry ill go back under my rock and lurk more... IN B4 "COOL STORY BRO", "STFU" and "DIE MOTHERFUCKER" :D 69321 Post 2009-08-25T17:33:59-04:00 2169441 5409 2009-08-25T17:33:59-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Mike Gaboury said:</cite> I'm in favor of a one time fee, or annual even. But I think paying members are the ones who can Submit shirts, create and comment on threads, and submit/view resources. Non paying members Should be able to view, love, and comment on shirts, VIEW only for threads.</blockquote> I don't think the fee should be more than $1 per month. Either that or just a $25 lifetime fee or something like that. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T17:43:02-04:00 2169641 11188 2009-08-25T17:43:02-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Killer Napkins said:</cite> shaux-ntz godmachaux mumfaux</blockquote> yeah. my fav is when they are called out... wow thats so shantz/gm/mum/henson... yeah i can see that, but its not.. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T17:45:18-04:00 2169671 1249 2009-08-25T17:45:18-04:00 <blockquote><cite>InugaStuff said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Mike Gaboury said:</cite> I'm in favor of a one time fee, or annual even. But I think paying members are the ones who can Submit shirts, create and comment on threads, and submit/view resources. Non paying members Should be able to view, love, and comment on shirts, VIEW only for threads.</blockquote> I don't think the fee should be more than $1 per month. Either that or just a $25 lifetime fee or something like that.</blockquote> +1 69321 Post 2009-08-25T17:45:27-04:00 2169681 29751 2009-08-25T17:45:27-04:00 Here is my thought after reading all of this... I don't think charging a fee is going to change anything. If anything, it will still bring in those idiots that think they are awesome designers and they will get even more mad since they paid to play. I think the site needs to be restructured. I think too often, (myself included) I go straight to TALK to find answer and forget that there is even a resources link. I think the links at top get lost at times and definitely for a noob, they are not going to get it. While the search needs definite improvement, it is probably not feasible for them to do and would cost way too much money. I suggest (and it would be very easy), allow tagging on talk posts (just like with tees) and that way when people search it may come up better. Also, if there was a tag cloud, or even somewhere you could go within categories in talk, it would separate it out better. I think the biggest thing that would help tremendously is if a whole lot of time and effort was put into the resources by indielabs and those that have contributed. I think the layout of it could be changed and also broken down into better higherarchy. If emptees members went through and added more to that and then there was better direction to that part of the site, i think it would greatly improve the "Noob factor" of the site. As far as dickheads and bad designs, that is the price you pay for a site becoming popular. You cannot just kick someone out because you are better than them. It's like when your favorite backpocket band gets big, it sucks that everyone likes them now, but what can you do about it? I do think the nominal fee would be good to monetize the site for indie labs sake, but it would do nothing to weed out crap. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T17:46:38-04:00 2169711 5929 2009-08-25T17:49:03-04:00 $12 a year 1 tee post per day Edit the search function so one can set it to only search thread titles 69321 Post 2009-08-25T17:52:26-04:00 2169801 10311 2009-08-25T17:52:26-04:00 How about we make all the Edgil supporters have to pay to use the site? 69321 Post 2009-08-25T17:57:15-04:00 2169941 1025 2009-08-25T17:57:42-04:00 i think there should be sections to the talk like illustrations, help and feedback, and bullshit 69321 Post 2009-08-25T17:58:16-04:00 2169961 38321 2009-08-25T17:58:16-04:00 i think maybe my last post was too long winded and bla bla bla...ill just cliff notes it: idea: make the function of posting to the talk and tee section disabled for new members for a certain time period. that way they have to lurk/observe for a month(s) before jumping in and posting all the stuff regulars are pissed off about. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T18:09:04-04:00 2170281 5409 2009-08-25T18:09:04-04:00 <blockquote><cite>InugaStuff said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Mike Gaboury said:</cite> I'm in favor of a one time fee, or annual even. But I think paying members are the ones who can Submit shirts, create and comment on threads, and submit/view resources. Non paying members Should be able to view, love, and comment on shirts, VIEW only for threads.</blockquote> I don't think the fee should be more than $1 per month. Either that or just a $25 lifetime fee or something like that.</blockquote> I actually think that lifetime fee isn't such a bad idea 69321 Post 2009-08-25T18:20:05-04:00 2170651 6831 2009-08-25T18:20:05-04:00 Impossible to post without an avatar. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T18:29:24-04:00 2170941 2879 2009-08-25T18:29:24-04:00 maybe do something like DBH where you submit a design and if it's crap then don't let it get posted, only thing with that is people will be posting why didn't my design post? and it could be time consuming, just a suggestion 69321 Post 2009-08-25T18:31:38-04:00 2170951 8874 2009-08-25T18:31:38-04:00 <blockquote><cite>gaunty said:</cite> Impossible to post without an avatar.</blockquote> this would mix well with the "must be a member for a certain time before posting" 69321 Post 2009-08-25T18:41:04-04:00 2171111 38321 2009-08-25T18:41:04-04:00 i dont even post up tee's or anything. but i love the site, i love the photography threads and shit. i'd pay 25 bucks for a "lifetime" membership. i think its a good idea 69321 Post 2009-08-25T18:43:58-04:00 2171171 25581 2009-08-25T18:43:58-04:00 Some basic sections outlining and explaining the rules of the site and etiquette. One for new members that are mainly clothing lines or bands looking to buy designs. The other for designers and artists. In these two sections is a bullet point list of manners and etiquette to follow. That way <a href="http://emptees.com/posts/69491-i-am-the-error-looking-for-band-shirts">stuff like this</a> doesn't happen. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T18:59:36-04:00 2171551 13026 2009-08-25T18:59:36-04:00 i don't have much to contribute, i just wanted my avatar in the little "who's talking" box.... this site has been incredible and i've met so many people on here, i've made some great business connections, and every design i've ever put up for sale, i've gotten emails that day with someone offering to purchase it. so emptees, a design forum that i joined a little over a year ago, has been instrumental in my success commercially, and inspiring artistically. maybe it's the same way for a lot of you as well, and now that when we go to the tees section, we're not as inspired as we once were and we all want to harken back to the old days and get that magic back. which in the times we live in, was last year. this site still rules, it just takes a lot longer to find a gem within it's caverns due to the popularity. (i was stopped at walmart the other day because someone from this site followed my work and wanted to be a tee designer) i'm not sure what would help it. there are people on here a hell of a lot smarter than me willing to figure it out. i'm not sure a fee based subscription would work or not, as i would participate, but would clothing/record/merchandising companies? i'm sure people smarter than me will figure it out. i'll just go back to drawing up some gore and see how it plays out. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T19:15:45-04:00 2171801 5570 2009-08-25T19:15:45-04:00 You can feel the positive vibe already <a href="http://emptees.com/posts/69491-i-am-the-error-looking-for-band-shirts">here as well.</a> I agree with almost all of the above mentioned points. But we should start off by acting like adults like in the link that i mention. QuakerNinja just set the example. Point the noobs -like myself- in the right direction in the way you would like to be addressed to yourself. Imagine Emptees was a real place and a noob came up to you in real life, asking a noob-question. In real life you wouldn't be all sarcastic, tell him to gtfo and act like a maniac making clear the noob is too stupid to wipe his own a$$ and that's why he's asking these stupid questions... No, all these things would only be happening in your head, but because of your sense of (self)respect and the fact that your mom & dad have taught you the right manners, you'll help him out. In an adult and correct way. Starting with the man in the mirror. RIP MJ. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T19:53:29-04:00 2172591 46601 2009-08-25T19:53:29-04:00 yeh i've seen a change already and it feel good :D 69321 Post 2009-08-25T19:56:22-04:00 2172661 8874 2009-08-25T19:56:32-04:00 I will say the most positive and helpful thing I can. Keep an open mind. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T20:04:55-04:00 2172851 44251 2009-08-25T20:04:55-04:00 Yeah i've been looking around the talk section and i'm not used to read replies without the ultra-sarcasm and "gtfo"-mentality. I almost puked... 69321 Post 2009-08-25T20:05:21-04:00 2172871 46601 2009-08-25T20:05:21-04:00 farewell emptees! 69321 Post 2009-08-25T20:06:17-04:00 2172891 1876 2009-08-25T20:06:17-04:00 While I might not show the most artwork (you sometimes see it in the sketches thread) I still have been helpful to a lot of people in my mind, and am a fairly active member. This being said. Paying to come here is a bad idea. Donating to get a potential perk or help out indie labs, is a much better idea. To stupid the "fucktards" dont do invite-only. Have a form of checklist when you join up. Make them go and read some rules, then go and read some more rules, and then direct em to some FAQs. At this point, make them get an avatar. Once all your steps are completed, you may just be allowed to post rather than... "Heyz, need to know best info on whatever subject, and oh hey I wont come back for another 3 days while this post blows up over random stuff" Sound good? I dont think private, or forcing people to pay is good. Some screening at the get go, plus another few mods, would help out plenty. I come here less now, as I dont read as much helpful information as I used to. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T20:10:06-04:00 2173001 8810 2009-08-25T20:10:06-04:00 <blockquote><cite>augie said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>gaunty said:</cite> Impossible to post without an avatar.</blockquote> this would mix well with the "must be a member for a certain time before posting"</blockquote> this. also, perhaps have a seperate talk section for buyers to inquire about designs? also, a lolcat and porn section. just kidding. or how bout some lolporn...sorry ill go away now. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T20:14:34-04:00 2173101 5409 2009-08-25T20:14:34-04:00 LOL you guys serious with this paying shit if you can't take a joke or something negative that someone posts on TEH INTERNET, you got others things to worry about. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T20:18:06-04:00 2173241 7920 2009-08-25T20:18:06-04:00 Seriously though, i wouldnt pay to post shirts here as much as i love this site. I didnt read the whole thing but the shirts should be screened before theyre posted. So shit stays out. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T20:26:38-04:00 2173531 10133 2009-08-25T20:26:38-04:00 I think the solution is just that ", serious posts only" should go after every thread title. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T20:36:00-04:00 2173721 40 2009-08-25T20:36:00-04:00 /me dusts off his hands and walks away 69321 Post 2009-08-25T20:36:27-04:00 2173741 40 2009-08-25T20:36:27-04:00 I'm broke as hell and I don't see myself coming into money any time soon as my girlfriend and I just had our son. We are struggling enough as it is. I like coming to emptees and joking around while sharing ideas/asking questions about the field I'm interested in, so I can hopefully build my skills and do something I can be proud of. I understand the need to protect the community from shit heads, but if a pay-to-post model is introduced I will most likely visit the site less and less until I stop coming here completely as I wouldn't feel as if I were a part of the community at all. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T20:36:30-04:00 2173751 32291 2009-08-25T20:36:30-04:00 I think a 1 dollar paypal fee or something would deter a lot people from just whoring themselves. You cant stop people from posting shitting comments and tees, but people only interested in the community would pay. Shit even $5, I am sure we all wasted $5 in the last 10 min. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T21:06:16-04:00 2174311 5341 2009-08-25T21:06:16-04:00 I love this place and well I just ignore the bullshit and talk to the people I want to talk too....seems simple enough....I would pay a small fee...this place gets me work so I can't argue with that 69321 Post 2009-08-25T21:15:41-04:00 2174471 3021 2009-08-25T21:15:41-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Joey said:</cite> i really didn't read all of this, but i would not pay to hang out on a website. i don't care how good it is.</blockquote> this x100000 I dont care if it's a dollar OH HAI GUISE I PAY TO POST ON AN ONLINE FORUM HOW COOL AM I 69321 Post 2009-08-25T21:16:37-04:00 2174501 7920 2009-08-25T21:16:37-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Reilly said:</cite> I think the solution is just that ", serious posts only" should go after every thread title.</blockquote> NO STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN 69321 Post 2009-08-25T21:21:19-04:00 2174571 5738 2009-08-25T21:21:19-04:00 I think a way to discipline bad users would help. Dobi is doing a good job of closing redundant, inflammatory, or downright pointless threads. It's definitely helping. Unfortunately, there's no way to ban or reprimand users outside of total account deletion. See: the thread where Byskell just called someone's girlfriend stupid for no apparent reason. There's no way to handle that outside of the nuclear option. Timeout bans, warnings - that sort of stuff actually works. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T21:24:28-04:00 2174641 5738 2009-08-25T21:24:28-04:00 old school punishment, basically 69321 Post 2009-08-25T21:28:38-04:00 2174731 38321 2009-08-25T21:28:38-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Frenden said:</cite> I think a way to discipline bad users would help. Dobi is doing a good job of closing redundant, inflammatory, or downright pointless threads. It's definitely helping. Unfortunately, there's no way to ban or reprimand users outside of total account deletion. See: the thread where Byskell just called someone's girlfriend stupid for no apparent reason. There's no way to handle that outside of the nuclear option. Timeout bans, warnings - that sort of stuff actually works.</blockquote> Very good point. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T21:31:55-04:00 2174761 8948 2009-08-25T21:31:55-04:00 I don’t really say much on here. Infact i dont say much atall. I’m some what of micro mouth. but emptees rocks. I mean when i first came here i didnt expect any comments but to my suprise there were plenty - and i was welcomed me to the site like a new born baby being brought into the world. It was beautiful. So yes emptees is like a mother to us all.. is that what im trying to say? probably not. maybe. mummy emptees has had too many babies and cant handle the stress of looking after them. Its not what it used to be - It used to remind me of freshly baked fruitcake. mmmm. nom nom. Now it’s like leftover birthday cake and some of the pieces are gone but its still worth it! arghh, this is why i dont talk. I guess this is just a complete waffle. What i really think mummy emptees needs is more posting shirts, more constructive criticism (from the pros!) less drama and boohoo rips. I’m gonna go draw some tees toodloo 69321 Post 2009-08-25T21:39:25-04:00 2174841 6917 2009-08-25T21:39:25-04:00 I don't know if anyone has mentioned this (because I don't have 30 minutes to read all of this), but touching on Frenden's last comment, has anyone seen the 'rep' system on forums before? Every member has the ability to gain rep and give rep, whether it be positive or negative. You'd give someone + rep for being helpful, informative, etc, etc....really whatever reason you want. But the NEGATIVE rep is the real point here. If a user accumulates enough NEG rep they could, in turn, be booted from the site for good. This way, only 1 or 2 people don't have the power to get someone booted just because of a stupid grudge or whiney argument, but if there are enough people who feel an individual does not deserve to participate any longer, it will be evident by the amount of negative rep that individual has accumulated (holy run on sentence). I'm sure I made it sound far more complicated than it really is. I've seen it on a few other forums and it's a great tool. After a little negative rep from a few people, the trouble-maker will adjust his/her attitude in fear of being wiped from the face of the website. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T21:40:51-04:00 2174851 13631 2009-08-25T21:40:51-04:00 So I think some great ideas have been covered here from what I read and I think that maybe someone should run a poll on what to do about it all, just my two cents.. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T21:47:15-04:00 2174931 6463 2009-08-25T21:47:15-04:00 The Emptees community can be divided into 3 types of members: 1) Serious designers/illustrators/entrepreneurs making a living at it 2) Newbies who are working to become serious designers/illustrators/entrepreneurs 3) Trolls and time-wasters Although everyone spends a bit of time playing each of these roles, we'd probably all be able to label each member here with one of these identities. That said, I feel that a lot of problems here would be solved with better organization, a system to manage interactions between these 3 groups. The simplest way to accomplish this is to partition the Talk section. I suggest starting with 3 sections: 1) <b>Classifieds</b> (where potential clients look for designers) 2) <b>General Talk</b> (tee, design, and industry-related conversation) 3) <b>Off Topic</b> (anything not in those other two categories) Having a designated <b>Classifieds</b> section will indicate to potential clients that designers in that forum are serious about their work. With some moderation, it could come to represent the professional aspect of this community, aka, Group 1. A <b>General Talk</b> section would serve as a gathering point for Group 1 and Group 2. Professionals discussing design, apparel, and business with other Professionals (1 and 1) Professionals giving advice to Newbies (1 and 2) Newbies discussing tees with Newbies (2 and 2) Finally, an <b>Off Topic</b> section becomes a water cooler for all 3 groups. You can't get rid of trolls, but you can move their threads here where they'll be easier to ignore. At the same time, folks from Group 1 and 2 have a place to let off steam if they choose. Rip accusations could go here too. I honestly feel that simple organization like this would go farther than any sort of membership fees or invitation system. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T21:47:29-04:00 2174941 1490 2009-08-25T21:49:20-04:00 grandfather all of our accounts (so i dont have to pay) then institute a 5-10 dollar registration fee and a ban/probation system and make 3 or 4 more dudes moderators. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T21:47:36-04:00 2174951 32291 2009-08-25T21:47:36-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Guillermo said:</cite> you know its not all the new people that are ruining emptees or the lame comments or the usless posts that some people post whats ruining emptees is all the grown up people who are whining and crying, emptees is getting more and more popular, things, happen learn to deal with them...</blockquote> /thread Guillermo Del Toro has spoken P.S. shut it Nugget, you've been here a month 69321 Post 2009-08-25T21:52:08-04:00 2175071 12157 2009-08-25T21:53:20-04:00 I have only been on this site for about 4 months, but I have been a lurker of it for about a year and a bit and I have slightly stopped using the site recently because it's started to get a bit too much with the 100000 posts a day and trying to find the shirts people should be putting out there. The only reason I actually havent logged in for a while is because I have been completing some large scale works and once that is finished I was going to do some more designs to try get back up. and then also a few things directed me away aswell like about a month ago I bought a Wacom offer guy on here who now i think deleted his account cause he was just ripping me off and never sent it.....so a account price could stop just people from joining randomly, and the rating system would help a lot I have brought this up before in a thread that didn't really pick up. and just one more thought it would be good if there was a way of contacting artists with commenting shirts or email.....like the actual members page has a comment things down the bottom under everything for like communication/rating type thing. hopefully if this all comes through this site will go back to what I used to see, just now i would be able to participate 69321 Post 2009-08-25T21:54:31-04:00 2175091 14791 2009-08-25T21:55:19-04:00 <blockquote><cite>PitchGrim said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Guillermo said:</cite> you know its not all the new people that are ruining emptees or the lame comments or the usless posts that some people post whats ruining emptees is all the grown up people who are whining and crying, emptees is getting more and more popular, things, happen learn to deal with them...</blockquote> /thread Guillermo Del Toro has spoken P.S. shut it Nugget, you've been here a month</blockquote> no ive been here for months! decided to make an account 2 months ago, and ever sense im on it every day, first thing i open up 69321 Post 2009-08-25T21:55:49-04:00 2175111 40501 2009-08-25T21:56:25-04:00 I think any barrier to entry such a fee would help keep alot of crap out...or at least those who just find the site for the first time and feel the need to ask the same old questions without doing a search first. My main concern is the quality of the content, even from those who post regularly. Personally, I'm sick of weeding through posts that just say "Check this out" and showing a picture of some old guys blowing each other just to find actual content and real conversation. I'm no prude and I like a good joke now and then but damn this board gets riddled with that crap day in and day out. I'm on it all the time and after 5 minutes I'm usually fed up because I've wasted my time looking at a bunch of juvenile posts. Damn, I need to read more...just what Eric wrote above. Definitely the way to go in my opinion... 69321 Post 2009-08-25T21:58:55-04:00 2175181 1826 2009-08-25T21:58:55-04:00 a monthly fee, even if it's a $1 will keep away a lot of people...and will definitely help keep away those that are too young to have a credit card but then again, like Linty Fresh said, dividing the talk section would definitely help filter the garbage (or at least keep it in the off-topic section), and would also just generally help keep the site tidier 69321 Post 2009-08-25T22:03:50-04:00 2175261 39131 2009-08-25T22:06:02-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Guillermo said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>PitchGrim said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Guillermo said:</cite> you know its not all the new people that are ruining emptees or the lame comments or the usless posts that some people post whats ruining emptees is all the grown up people who are whining and crying, emptees is getting more and more popular, things, happen learn to deal with them...</blockquote> /thread Guillermo Del Toro has spoken P.S. shut it Nugget, you've been here a month</blockquote> no ive been here for months! decided to make an account 2 months ago, and ever sense im on it every day, first thing i open up</blockquote> The problem IS that the site has become popular and almost a trend for the youngsters who think it's cool to be a designer. The thing is, is that about 3% of the members here actually design and make money off said posts. Look at Godmachine, Mumford, Deal and many other greats who post only every so often because they post shirts that are in fact shirts you can purchase. It absolutely sucks having to shuffle through about 30 designs to find the ones that are legit and sincere. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T22:06:29-04:00 2175281 12157 2009-08-25T22:06:29-04:00 <blockquote><cite>PitchGrim said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Guillermo said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>PitchGrim said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Guillermo said:</cite> you know its not all the new people that are ruining emptees or the lame comments or the usless posts that some people post whats ruining emptees is all the grown up people who are whining and crying, emptees is getting more and more popular, things, happen learn to deal with them...</blockquote> /thread Guillermo Del Toro has spoken P.S. shut it Nugget, you've been here a month</blockquote> no ive been here for months! decided to make an account 2 months ago, and ever sense im on it every day, first thing i open up</blockquote> The problem IS that the site has become popular and almost a trend for the youngsters who think it's cool to be a designer. The thing is, is that about 3% of the members here actually design and make money off said posts. Look at Godmachine, Mumford, Deal and many other greats who post only every so often because they post shirts that are in fact shirts you can purchase. It absolutely sucks having to shuffle through about 30 designs to find the ones that are legit and sincere.</blockquote> word. i was like that in the begining but i caught on quick i wasnt really excepted nicely from some bad actions that i have done. and im pretty sure the new designers will learn too but a small fee for 1$ i dont mind, one it will help clear of some usless accounts and help out the indie labs 69321 Post 2009-08-25T22:16:41-04:00 2175401 40501 2009-08-25T22:16:41-04:00 Just putting it out there. I don't care about memberships or all of the other exclusive crap people are whining about. I would gladly throw down some cash to help the indielabs dudes with upkeep though. Especially if it will help to contribute to more coolness being added to the site. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T22:37:50-04:00 2175661 997 2009-08-25T22:37:50-04:00 <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> Just putting it out there. I don't care about memberships or all of the other exclusive crap people are whining about. I would gladly throw down some cash to help the indielabs dudes with upkeep though. Especially if it will help to contribute to more coolness being added to the site.</blockquote> I dont think the fact of getting special exculsives from the site is reason of payment, its both to give back to the people who have provided it and to hopefully cut down on the excess crap being posted around. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T22:39:54-04:00 2175691 14791 2009-08-25T22:39:54-04:00 <blockquote><cite>M5Froth said:</cite> I don't know if anyone has mentioned this (because I don't have 30 minutes to read all of this), but touching on Frenden's last comment, has anyone seen the 'rep' system on forums before? Every member has the ability to gain rep and give rep, whether it be positive or negative. You'd give someone + rep for being helpful, informative, etc, etc....really whatever reason you want. But the NEGATIVE rep is the real point here. If a user accumulates enough NEG rep they could, in turn, be booted from the site for good. This way, only 1 or 2 people don't have the power to get someone booted just because of a stupid grudge or whiney argument, but if there are enough people who feel an individual does not deserve to participate any longer, it will be evident by the amount of negative rep that individual has accumulated (holy run on sentence). I'm sure I made it sound far more complicated than it really is. I've seen it on a few other forums and it's a great tool. After a little negative rep from a few people, the trouble-maker will adjust his/her attitude in fear of being wiped from the face of the website.</blockquote> I doubt this could be effective, as there are regulars who often say things that anyone who has seen their posts will know they are making a joke, and then all it takes is a bunch of trolls to give them a negative rep and the system is a mess! What would happen if the trolls ganged up on angray? 69321 Post 2009-08-25T22:42:27-04:00 2175741 9930 2009-08-25T22:42:27-04:00 <img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3161/2994034600_69ce8c0b6c.jpg" /> 69321 Post 2009-08-25T22:44:04-04:00 2175761 10311 2009-08-25T22:44:04-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Michael Partridge said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>M5Froth said:</cite> I don't know if anyone has mentioned this (because I don't have 30 minutes to read all of this), but touching on Frenden's last comment, has anyone seen the 'rep' system on forums before? Every member has the ability to gain rep and give rep, whether it be positive or negative. You'd give someone + rep for being helpful, informative, etc, etc....really whatever reason you want. But the NEGATIVE rep is the real point here. If a user accumulates enough NEG rep they could, in turn, be booted from the site for good. This way, only 1 or 2 people don't have the power to get someone booted just because of a stupid grudge or whiney argument, but if there are enough people who feel an individual does not deserve to participate any longer, it will be evident by the amount of negative rep that individual has accumulated (holy run on sentence). I'm sure I made it sound far more complicated than it really is. I've seen it on a few other forums and it's a great tool. After a little negative rep from a few people, the trouble-maker will adjust his/her attitude in fear of being wiped from the face of the website.</blockquote> I doubt this could be effective, as there are regulars who often say things that anyone who has seen their posts will know they are making a joke, and then all it takes is a bunch of trolls to give them a negative rep and the system is a mess! What would happen if the trolls ganged up on angray?</blockquote> I forgot to mention the other aspect of the whole rep deal....the "power" of an individuals negative rep is proportional to the amount of positive rep he/she has. So the more positive rep you accumulate, the more "powerful" your negative rep becomes. So a bunch of trolls would most likely have very low amounts of positive rep (if any) and they'd be unable to "gang up" on anyone. This basically just results in the more positive, helpful, serious individuals having a bigger influence...which would be a good thing. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T22:49:10-04:00 2175801 13631 2009-08-25T22:49:10-04:00 s.harrison - You missed my point, and I'm not in the mood to explain myself. Needless to say, doing things to keep people out is being exclusive. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T22:49:41-04:00 2175811 997 2009-08-25T22:49:41-04:00 Just putting in my vote. I think a small membership fee would be just the thing to weed out the menaces. Also limiting the amount of tees you can post a day is a great idea! 69321 Post 2009-08-25T22:56:37-04:00 2175931 3764 2009-08-25T22:56:37-04:00 i just want to get better, see cool tees, avoid bullshit, and have the "pros" tell me how i can be better and why my shit isn't up to par when it isn't. i'll pay a fee. this place has been very rewarding to a lot of us in many ways. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T23:00:47-04:00 2175971 3775 2009-08-25T23:00:47-04:00 <blockquote><cite>cbass99 said:</cite> i just want to get better, see cool tees, avoid bullshit, and have the "pros" tell me how i can be better and why my shit isn't up to par when it isn't..</blockquote> 69321 Post 2009-08-25T23:04:08-04:00 2176011 10311 2009-08-25T23:04:08-04:00 Hi! I'm new here.. whats this place all about? can you guys design me a band logo? I'm starting my own tee line, it's gonna be huge... if you help me I'll include your name in the web store! also.. what kind of tablet should I get? and who is this GodMachine? thanks! 69321 Post 2009-08-25T23:07:44-04:00 2176041 1567 2009-08-25T23:07:44-04:00 <blockquote><cite>jasonsoldout said:</cite> a monthly fee, even if it's a $1 will keep away a lot of people...and will definitely help keep away those that are too young to have a credit card but then again, like Linty Fresh said, dividing the talk section would definitely help filter the garbage (or at least keep it in the off-topic section), and would also just generally help keep the site tidier</blockquote> yeah divide the tee talk section thats a good idea the only way I'll pay for an emptees membership is if it comes with a big mac meal and a blow job lol 69321 Post 2009-08-25T23:10:33-04:00 2176091 9184 2009-08-25T23:10:33-04:00 I like how Eric thinks.. I might actually log in more often then. I BARELY come here anymore... it's almost a waste of time to find anything worth damn here.(content-wise) 69321 Post 2009-08-25T23:15:02-04:00 2176171 1567 2009-08-25T23:15:02-04:00 <blockquote><cite>ShirtFight.com said:</cite> so many thoughts on this, i'll try to keep it brief: 1. First, what is the "mission statement" of this site? Is it supposed to be a small knit group of artists to showcase their work to potential buyers? Is it a place for people to come discuss the t-shirt design business, including resources & techniques for success? Is it an online hangout spot for like-minded people to have fun? You can't really make any decision until that is established. 2. Regardless of the purpose of this site, IndieLabs will never ever ever charge a fee, even if it's $1. It's completely counter-productive to their goal, to make money. You start filtering out people, traffic goes down, and they are unable to charge as much for advertising. 3. About this limiting/moderating what tee designs get submitted...again, it depends on the purpose of this site, but c'mon there are always going to be people of varied skills. What you call "doodle design shirts" may very well be someone's hard work. Instead of deleting them, tell them what they could do to improve (again, assuming that's part of the mission statement for emptees) 4. Use the Golden Rule. If you don't want drama or idiotic behavior on the site, then don't instigate or perpetuate it. 5. Moderate hard. If you see assholes like "The Redemption Song" doing nothing but stirring up shit, ban his ass. I came here 6-7 months ago fresh on the scene. I've designed and subbed a couple of shirts that most likely would fall into the "not so great" category. I post silly threads. I post kitten pictures. And I've met so many great people on here...Emptees isn't broke, there's just a couple of drunks at the bar that need to be kicked out.</blockquote> make sense! 69321 Post 2009-08-25T23:16:15-04:00 2176181 11246 2009-08-25T23:16:41-04:00 <blockquote><cite>jasonsoldout said:</cite> a monthly fee, even if it's a $1 will keep away a lot of people...and will definitely help keep away those that are too young to have a credit card but then again, like Linty Fresh said, dividing the talk section would definitely help filter the garbage (or at least keep it in the off-topic section), and would also just generally help keep the site tidier</blockquote> +1 agreed 69321 Post 2009-08-25T23:17:17-04:00 2176201 10727 2009-08-25T23:17:17-04:00 About 6 months ago I checked emptees so much that sometimes I opened it in multiple tabs just out of habit! Now Im just tired of seeing the same things over and over...but to be fair to the newer people, a lot of the things being asked are the same things other asked back in the good ole days. So here is my suggestion. *What about making a feature for when you make a new thread is picks up keywords and first links you to similar threads before you can actually make the post. This way the newer guys wont be able to over look the search feature. Just my initial thought, Im sure it wont happen though...seems tricky. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T23:21:59-04:00 2176241 537 2009-08-25T23:21:59-04:00 Eric has the absolute right idea. People are over complicating the matter with invites and fees. Once you click talk, show a list of categories to choose from just like any other community forum. Give a list of rules in each forum. Delete anything that doesn't pertain to that forum. Easy enough. I like the idea of being able to post less tees per day because it's time consuming to go through them all. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T23:29:03-04:00 2176281 3352 2009-08-25T23:29:03-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Hillman said:</cite> Just my initial thought, Im sure it wont happen though...seems tricky.</blockquote> So did the iPhone 10 years ago.. now look. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T23:36:43-04:00 2176451 54061 2009-08-25T23:36:43-04:00 I have been visiting this site for some time now and I'm really surprised on how much potential it has. With that being said I just decided to register an account today and one of the first things I noticed is that there were no sections. I think dividing the tee talk into sections would be a great improvement to the site whether you decided to charge or not ! 69321 Post 2009-08-25T23:43:12-04:00 2176591 57461 2009-08-25T23:43:12-04:00 I have only been here for a few months so firstly: This site is awesome, and much respect to all the talent on here. Within only a matter of days of joining, i got to learn very fast how things work around here just by sitting back and watching the show. I can understand how annoyed everyone must get when you see the same questions asked a million time. i swear once a week i'll see 'how do you guys do linework?' and 'how do i colour?' when there is a stack of resources and talk posts already there to help people out. (also there is these things called google and youtube to search for what your looking for) You all could be doing much better things like designing new shirts or scratching your arse, than answering the same posts over and over. Im still learning myself, but it's not hard to do a lil research and practice yourself, rather than annoy everyone here who takes this site seriously. <blockquote><cite>Emptees isn't broke, there's just a couple of drunks at the bar that need to be kicked out.</blockquote> So maybe a cover charge could work? few bucks a month..? Or even if you somehow got rid of all the people who dont take this site seriously and then gave everyone else a login and password with a limit of invites? and dont have a 'sign up' section? but that may stop future talent from joining... hmmm this is a tough one. Maybe, make the rules more strict? like terms and conditions of the site..? if you: upload a disgraceful mockup - you get deleted start a post thats already been started - deleted etc etc. I dont know guys, just my thoughts on the topic. =) 69321 Post 2009-08-25T23:47:40-04:00 2176681 25411 2009-08-25T23:47:40-04:00 like skull with hair said, im not paying for shit. people keep saying everyone makes money on this site, well i fucking dont. i like the idea of invites (id get an invite right?!). thats alll 69321 Post 2009-08-25T23:48:30-04:00 2176691 1208 2009-08-25T23:48:30-04:00 The critique tee section should be deleted because it's an invitation for the less attractive designs. 69321 Post 2009-08-25T23:54:26-04:00 2176771 12157 2009-08-25T23:54:51-04:00 Yeh i agree paying a few bucks is still gunna be pointless, might even make some good designers leave. yeh invites only kind deal, and if you cant get an invite, and are an awesome designer, email a mod some of your work, and they may let you in based on that? *shrugs* 69321 Post 2009-08-26T00:01:39-04:00 2176871 25411 2009-08-26T00:01:57-04:00 <blockquote><cite>RoonKill said:</cite> Yeh i agree paying a few bucks is still gunna be pointless, might even make some good designers leave. *shrugs*</blockquote> Exactly. And why is $1 going to keep out some kid that is starting the "best new line ever". The same crap is going to go on fee or no fee. If I have to pay to access this site, I will just stop using it. I'd rather put up with the nonsense for free that pay for the nonsense. I agree with the better organization. If you look at any web development theory about current web design trends, everything points to leading the user where you want them to go. For instance, with most web 2.0 sites (or any site really), there is usually some sort of arrow button that says "Take the Tour" or "Sign up now". This kind of theory guides the user through the experience. I think the homepage could use more of that so noobs could get a better feel. It would also be helpful if it was like that in the signup as well. 69321 Post 2009-08-26T00:21:08-04:00 2176991 5929 2009-08-26T00:21:08-04:00 Okay, so heres my thauhts. I've only been here since around the start of the year and have only posted one tee so yeah I'm kinda noobish. I think that everyone would be less frustrated if they didn't have to see all the teedious questions about tablets and all this. So, at the top of the talk page there should be a FAQ icon. This could have the answers to most questions people get sick of seeing. Another idea I have is to have talk categories. Something like this: Tee Talk *Stuff for sale *Software/Hardware *Printing Other *Jokes/Laughs *Music/ TV *News/ Current events Idk, those are just some ideas so you can see what I'm talking about. I would be willing to pay $1 per month to come on here. I mean, I used to pay $12 per month to play runescape. As for invite only, I don't think this would be a good idea. A lot of people would feel left out. I think a better way to go would be some sort of application (I think somone said this earlier) where a person just says why they want to be a member and what they can contribute. A few more mods is also a good idea as it would mean more people to watch for trolls, etc. and less work for the two we have now. If we limit this to 1 per day like people are saying, the quality of shirts will improve. It sucks when you upload something and by the end of the day its on like page 5. Some higher standards of what is allowed to be posted in the tee section would be good. Idk how you would screen every single shirt that gets uploaded, but it would rasie the quality and lower the quantity. Once again these are just my opinions of how things may be improved and the vibes of old may be restored 69321 Post 2009-08-26T00:37:16-04:00 2177131 12039 2009-08-26T00:37:16-04:00 A membership fee would make sense. It would keep alot of crap out. Something under 10 bux a month would be cool with me. 69321 Post 2009-08-26T00:49:15-04:00 2177251 8285 2009-08-26T00:49:15-04:00 Oh man. At first the membership fee thing seemed like a good idea. But then I realized that it actually is kind of scary. Emptees is an open forum for t-shirt designers and this whole community that just naturally happened and has really changed me as a member since when I joined almost a year ago. I think it just seems to me like we're now putting a price on that. I don't ever want to see the day where you have to pay money to be on a site like emptees and if we eventually do then I'm going to leave...This community does not stand for that and it just seems like a cop out or quick fix to a big problem. Like I said before, we just need some hardcore emptees patrolling for the next few months. The "hi im new" and "designs for cheap" and "what is this" and whatever else need to be deleted. Bad tees need to be deleted. Its obvious that the talk section is a forum but we don't have anything close here to the things that are efficient to run a forum. We need to try that first. 69321 Post 2009-08-26T01:18:43-04:00 2177411 8881 2009-08-26T01:18:43-04:00 <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> i ain't payin for shit.</blockquote> Hilarious. However, yes one lifetime fee I think sounds great. Less of a bitch than a $1 a month fee will be. Im still a n00b/fucktard on this site, but I enjoy posting and reading the talk section. Im not trying to be the best at what Im doing, I have a main aspiration to follow but designing is fun, and a break from what I normally do and having people respect the work/ideas is awesome. I say a flat out sign up cost would work, yeah its kind of a bummer cause godmachine said everyone was a n00b at first...and that makes sense, and at first I wouldnt have paid it if I was just signing up, but now its kinda worth it. I dunno, either way Im staying. People here kick ass...most of the time. 69321 Post 2009-08-26T01:30:26-04:00 2177491 51031 2009-08-26T01:30:26-04:00 <blockquote><cite>darianln said:</cite> Like I said before, we just need some hardcore emptees patrolling for the next few months. The "hi im new" and "designs for cheap" and "what is this" and whatever else need to be deleted. Bad tees need to be deleted. Its obvious that the talk section is a forum but we don't have anything close here to the things that are efficient to run a forum. <B>We need to try that first.</b></blockquote> I totally agree. After thinking about it, I also think introducing a fee should be a last resort. Or shouldn't happen at all. We've seen how many people said they would leave if they had to pay. It would be such a HUGE change to the site. And not necessarily a good change. I too think that there are plenty of steps to be taken to help with the site that don't involve money or fees. As plenty of other people have said, charging a fee <I>might</i> keep some of the trolls out, but it won't solve everything. We'll still get noobs with no respect, annoying posts and heated drama. And we'll be paying for it. As I said earlier - More mods and a few site changes should make a big impact. 69321 Post 2009-08-26T01:30:48-04:00 2177501 8948 2009-08-26T01:45:12-04:00 I doubt a fee would stop the douches, douches will douche regardless. I think harder moderation seems like the most sensible answer... be a dick/post a blatant rip off once... warning... be a dick/post a blatant rip off twice... you're banned. 69321 Post 2009-08-26T01:42:08-04:00 2177581 12108 2009-08-26T01:42:08-04:00 <blockquote><cite>8-bit ZOMBIE said:</cite> As plenty of other people have said, charging a fee <I>might</i> keep some of the trolls out, but it won't solve everything. We'll still get noobs with no respect, annoying posts and heated drama. And we'll be paying for it. As I said earlier - More mods, and a few site changes should make a big impact.</blockquote> This is true. I only think a fee would be great if that was the only option however only had a onetime flat small fee. 69321 Post 2009-08-26T01:49:24-04:00 2177601 51031 2009-08-26T01:49:24-04:00 I would agree to an annual fee, but i dont like the idea of paying monthly. One time, annual fee is fine. On a lighter note, where is Sht! to give us some words of wisdom with a sht load of exclamation points! ! 69321 Post 2009-08-26T02:15:14-04:00 2177751 1698 2009-08-26T02:15:14-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Linty Fresh said:</cite> The Emptees community can be divided into 3 types of members: 1) Serious designers/illustrators/entrepreneurs making a living at it 2) Newbies who are working to become serious designers/illustrators/entrepreneurs 3) Trolls and time-wasters Although everyone spends a bit of time playing each of these roles, we'd probably all be able to label each member here with one of these identities. That said, I feel that a lot of problems here would be solved with better organization, a system to manage interactions between these 3 groups. The simplest way to accomplish this is to partition the Talk section. I suggest starting with 3 sections: 1) <b>Classifieds</b> (where potential clients look for designers) 2) <b>General Talk</b> (tee, design, and industry-related conversation) 3) <b>Off Topic</b> (anything not in those other two categories) Having a designated <b>Classifieds</b> section will indicate to potential clients that designers in that forum are serious about their work. With some moderation, it could come to represent the professional aspect of this community, aka, Group 1. A <b>General Talk</b> section would serve as a gathering point for Group 1 and Group 2. Professionals discussing design, apparel, and business with other Professionals (1 and 1) Professionals giving advice to Newbies (1 and 2) Newbies discussing tees with Newbies (2 and 2) Finally, an <b>Off Topic</b> section becomes a water cooler for all 3 groups. You can't get rid of trolls, but you can move their threads here where they'll be easier to ignore. At the same time, folks from Group 1 and 2 have a place to let off steam if they choose. Rip accusations could go here too. I honestly feel that simple organization like this would go farther than any sort of membership fees or invitation system.</blockquote> Totally agree 69321 Post 2009-08-26T02:40:48-04:00 2177931 6159 2009-08-26T02:40:48-04:00 simplify. Things that shouldn't be posted in talk section: 1. I need a tee design but not paying blog. 2. A question that can be answered if the person took one second to search about it. 3. Anything offensive to the community. moderators call I noticed yesterday a post like No.1 and it got 24 comments in seconds. If there was a sticky at the top with 3 simple rules and the moderators just put "read the rules" and a link mabe this would happen less. I am pretty sure the person didnt need to be told 24 times to leave. 69321 Post 2009-08-26T02:55:24-04:00 2178051 2991 2009-08-26T02:56:08-04:00 Personally i think the idea of having a more structured talk section is a good thing. People come to Emptees for different things, and having a generic talk section means sometimes posts which really very good get bumped to older pages by "hey everyone look at my tits" . etc Course people want to chit chat, thats a big part of this site, making friends and hanging out is cool but i think there needs to be a more distinct order about Emptees. Yeah you could put a notice at the top stating the rules but i doubt if that would be adhered too by people posting. I agree with Eric and would go for the classifieds, off topic etc idea. 69321 Post 2009-08-26T04:22:26-04:00 2178581 6159 2009-08-26T04:22:26-04:00 you are ace wotto mate. 69321 Post 2009-08-26T04:45:41-04:00 2178671 2802 2009-08-26T04:45:41-04:00 totally agree w/ you wotto. if all else fails... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REVl4skqqUg 69321 Post 2009-08-26T05:28:09-04:00 2178791 2940 2009-08-26T05:28:09-04:00 If you are really sick of the noobs, just paste a sticky and label it MUST READ BEFORE POSTING in the talk section so they will know about the forum etiquette and what nots. This site has diminished because alot of people has taken it upon themselves to be doucbebags. 69321 Post 2009-08-26T06:35:33-04:00 2179191 5512 2009-08-26T06:35:33-04:00 dont ruin a good thing. 69321 Post 2009-08-26T07:00:20-04:00 2179331 6901 2009-08-26T07:00:20-04:00 <img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Symbol_thumbs_down.svg/463px-Symbol_thumbs_down.svg.png" /> <h1>This next to each comment and post.</h1> <b>For Comments:</b> If someone makes a dumbass comment, and 5-10 users give it the thumbs down, it gets hidden. <hr/> <b>For Post:</b> Same thing, but used slightly differently. If there's like duplicate posts and so forth, this comes in handy. 10 thumbs down deletes or hides the post. Also, it works for all those other "Looking For Design | Will Guarantee Exposure | How Do I Use My Computer" posts. 69321 Post 2009-08-26T08:28:42-04:00 2179621 303 2009-08-26T08:30:15-04:00 <blockquote><cite>derek said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Linty Fresh said:</cite> The Emptees community can be divided into 3 types of members: 1) Serious designers/illustrators/entrepreneurs making a living at it 2) Newbies who are working to become serious designers/illustrators/entrepreneurs 3) Trolls and time-wasters Although everyone spends a bit of time playing each of these roles, we'd probably all be able to label each member here with one of these identities. That said, I feel that a lot of problems here would be solved with better organization, a system to manage interactions between these 3 groups. The simplest way to accomplish this is to partition the Talk section. I suggest starting with 3 sections: 1) <b>Classifieds</b> (where potential clients look for designers) 2) <b>General Talk</b> (tee, design, and industry-related conversation) 3) <b>Off Topic</b> (anything not in those other two categories) Having a designated <b>Classifieds</b> section will indicate to potential clients that designers in that forum are serious about their work. With some moderation, it could come to represent the professional aspect of this community, aka, Group 1. A <b>General Talk</b> section would serve as a gathering point for Group 1 and Group 2. Professionals discussing design, apparel, and business with other Professionals (1 and 1) Professionals giving advice to Newbies (1 and 2) Newbies discussing tees with Newbies (2 and 2) Finally, an <b>Off Topic</b> section becomes a water cooler for all 3 groups. You can't get rid of trolls, but you can move their threads here where they'll be easier to ignore. At the same time, folks from Group 1 and 2 have a place to let off steam if they choose. Rip accusations could go here too. I honestly feel that simple organization like this would go farther than any sort of membership fees or invitation system.</blockquote> Totally agree</blockquote> Out of the 300 posts i've just read this seems the most sensible. All it takes then is for the mods to make sure the threads are kept to the correct topics. 69321 Post 2009-08-26T08:31:09-04:00 2179631 4551 2009-08-26T08:31:09-04:00 <blockquote><cite>downrodeo said:</cite> <img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Symbol_thumbs_down.svg/463px-Symbol_thumbs_down.svg.png" /> <h1>This next to each comment and post.</h1> <b>For Comments:</b> If someone makes a dumbass comment, and 5-10 users give it the thumbs down, it gets hidden. <hr/> <b>For Post:</b> Same thing, but used slightly differently. If there's like duplicate posts and so forth, this comes in handy. 10 thumbs down deletes or hides the post. Also, it works for all those other "Looking For Design | Will Guarantee Exposure | How Do I Use My Computer" posts.</blockquote> gooood idea. 69321 Post 2009-08-26T08:54:58-04:00 2179741 35211 2009-08-26T08:54:58-04:00 <blockquote><cite>impakto said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>ShirtFight.com said:</cite> so many thoughts on this, i'll try to keep it brief: 1. First, what is the "mission statement" of this site? Is it supposed to be a small knit group of artists to showcase their work to potential buyers? Is it a place for people to come discuss the t-shirt design business, including resources & techniques for success? Is it an online hangout spot for like-minded people to have fun? You can't really make any decision until that is established. 2. Regardless of the purpose of this site, IndieLabs will never ever ever charge a fee, even if it's $1. It's completely counter-productive to their goal, to make money. You start filtering out people, traffic goes down, and they are unable to charge as much for advertising. 3. About this limiting/moderating what tee designs get submitted...again, it depends on the purpose of this site, but c'mon there are always going to be people of varied skills. What you call "doodle design shirts" may very well be someone's hard work. Instead of deleting them, tell them what they could do to improve (again, assuming that's part of the mission statement for emptees) 4. Use the Golden Rule. If you don't want drama or idiotic behavior on the site, then don't instigate or perpetuate it. 5. Moderate hard. If you see assholes like "The Redemption Song" doing nothing but stirring up shit, ban his ass. I came here 6-7 months ago fresh on the scene. I've designed and subbed a couple of shirts that most likely would fall into the "not so great" category. I post silly threads. I post kitten pictures. And I've met so many great people on here...Emptees isn't broke, there's just a couple of drunks at the bar that need to be kicked out.</blockquote> make sense!</blockquote> agreed! 69321 Post 2009-08-26T08:58:23-04:00 2179781 10233 2009-08-26T08:58:23-04:00 <blockquote><cite>matt901 said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>derek said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Linty Fresh said:</cite> The Emptees community can be divided into 3 types of members: 1) Serious designers/illustrators/entrepreneurs making a living at it 2) Newbies who are working to become serious designers/illustrators/entrepreneurs 3) Trolls and time-wasters Although everyone spends a bit of time playing each of these roles, we'd probably all be able to label each member here with one of these identities. That said, I feel that a lot of problems here would be solved with better organization, a system to manage interactions between these 3 groups. The simplest way to accomplish this is to partition the Talk section. I suggest starting with 3 sections: 1) <b>Classifieds</b> (where potential clients look for designers) 2) <b>General Talk</b> (tee, design, and industry-related conversation) 3) <b>Off Topic</b> (anything not in those other two categories) Having a designated <b>Classifieds</b> section will indicate to potential clients that designers in that forum are serious about their work. With some moderation, it could come to represent the professional aspect of this community, aka, Group 1. A <b>General Talk</b> section would serve as a gathering point for Group 1 and Group 2. Professionals discussing design, apparel, and business with other Professionals (1 and 1) Professionals giving advice to Newbies (1 and 2) Newbies discussing tees with Newbies (2 and 2) Finally, an <b>Off Topic</b> section becomes a water cooler for all 3 groups. You can't get rid of trolls, but you can move their threads here where they'll be easier to ignore. At the same time, folks from Group 1 and 2 have a place to let off steam if they choose. Rip accusations could go here too. I honestly feel that simple organization like this would go farther than any sort of membership fees or invitation system.</blockquote> Totally agree</blockquote> Out of the 300 posts i've just read this seems the most sensible. All it takes then is for the mods to make sure the threads are kept to the correct topics.</blockquote> I think this is a great idea 69321 Post 2009-08-26T09:01:29-04:00 2179811 10233 2009-08-26T09:01:29-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Jowey said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Frenden said:</cite> Even $1 fee would help cut the fluff.</blockquote></blockquote> 69321 Post 2009-08-26T09:33:17-04:00 2180021 13581 2009-08-26T09:33:17-04:00 <blockquote><cite>mrdavenport said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>matt901 said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>derek said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Linty Fresh said:</cite> The Emptees community can be divided into 3 types of members: 1) Serious designers/illustrators/entrepreneurs making a living at it 2) Newbies who are working to become serious designers/illustrators/entrepreneurs 3) Trolls and time-wasters Although everyone spends a bit of time playing each of these roles, we'd probably all be able to label each member here with one of these identities. That said, I feel that a lot of problems here would be solved with better organization, a system to manage interactions between these 3 groups. The simplest way to accomplish this is to partition the Talk section. I suggest starting with 3 sections: 1) <b>Classifieds</b> (where potential clients look for designers) 2) <b>General Talk</b> (tee, design, and industry-related conversation) 3) <b>Off Topic</b> (anything not in those other two categories) Having a designated <b>Classifieds</b> section will indicate to potential clients that designers in that forum are serious about their work. With some moderation, it could come to represent the professional aspect of this community, aka, Group 1. A <b>General Talk</b> section would serve as a gathering point for Group 1 and Group 2. Professionals discussing design, apparel, and business with other Professionals (1 and 1) Professionals giving advice to Newbies (1 and 2) Newbies discussing tees with Newbies (2 and 2) Finally, an <b>Off Topic</b> section becomes a water cooler for all 3 groups. You can't get rid of trolls, but you can move their threads here where they'll be easier to ignore. At the same time, folks from Group 1 and 2 have a place to let off steam if they choose. Rip accusations could go here too. I honestly feel that simple organization like this would go farther than any sort of membership fees or invitation system.</blockquote> Totally agree</blockquote> Out of the 300 posts i've just read this seems the most sensible. All it takes then is for the mods to make sure the threads are kept to the correct topics.</blockquote> I think this is a great idea</blockquote> <blockquote><cite>mrdavenport said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>impakto said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>ShirtFight.com said:</cite> so many thoughts on this, i'll try to keep it brief: 1. First, what is the "mission statement" of this site? Is it supposed to be a small knit group of artists to showcase their work to potential buyers? Is it a place for people to come discuss the t-shirt design business, including resources & techniques for success? Is it an online hangout spot for like-minded people to have fun? You can't really make any decision until that is established. 2. Regardless of the purpose of this site, IndieLabs will never ever ever charge a fee, even if it's $1. It's completely counter-productive to their goal, to make money. You start filtering out people, traffic goes down, and they are unable to charge as much for advertising. 3. About this limiting/moderating what tee designs get submitted...again, it depends on the purpose of this site, but c'mon there are always going to be people of varied skills. What you call "doodle design shirts" may very well be someone's hard work. Instead of deleting them, tell them what they could do to improve (again, assuming that's part of the mission statement for emptees) 4. Use the Golden Rule. If you don't want drama or idiotic behavior on the site, then don't instigate or perpetuate it. 5. Moderate hard. If you see assholes like "The Redemption Song" doing nothing but stirring up shit, ban his ass. I came here 6-7 months ago fresh on the scene. I've designed and subbed a couple of shirts that most likely would fall into the "not so great" category. I post silly threads. I post kitten pictures. And I've met so many great people on here...Emptees isn't broke, there's just a couple of drunks at the bar that need to be kicked out.</blockquote> make sense!</blockquote> agreed!</blockquote> goood stuff here. agree =) 69321 Post 2009-08-26T09:50:16-04:00 2180121 515 2009-08-26T09:50:16-04:00 i came here because there was a link on derek deal's blog in like 2007 to this place and design by humans. dbh did not look friendly, emptees did. if i would have come to emptees and seen that there was a sign up fee, i would have been instantly detered. do you know what that would mean for my design abilities, goals, and the like? they wouldn't exist. emptees is the reason i've forced myself to become better. if it wasn't for emptees, i wouldn't be designing for bands like i am today. i don't think you should have a fee. i was 15 when i got here. you think i had a paypal? i wasn't gonna go ask my mom to give me her credit card so i could look at t-shirts. 69321 Post 2009-08-26T10:38:06-04:00 2180581 3515 2009-08-26T10:38:06-04:00 <blockquote><cite>volatile v said:</cite> i came here because there was a link on derek deal's blog in like 2007 to this place and design by humans. dbh did not look friendly, emptees did. if i would have come to emptees and seen that there was a sign up fee, i would have been instantly detered. do you know what that would mean for my design abilities, goals, and the like? they wouldn't exist. emptees is the reason i've forced myself to become better. if it wasn't for emptees, i wouldn't be designing for bands like i am today. i don't think you should have a fee. i was 15 when i got here. you think i had a paypal? i wasn't gonna go ask my mom to give me her credit card so i could look at t-shirts.</blockquote> that's kinda the idea unfortunately 69321 Post 2009-08-26T10:44:21-04:00 2180711 12157 2009-08-26T10:46:07-04:00 <blockquote><cite>volatile v said:</cite> i came here because there was a link on derek deal's blog in like 2007 to this place and design by humans. dbh did not look friendly, emptees did. if i would have come to emptees and seen that there was a sign up fee, i would have been instantly detered. do you know what that would mean for my design abilities, goals, and the like? they wouldn't exist. emptees is the reason i've forced myself to become better. if it wasn't for emptees, i wouldn't be designing for bands like i am today. i don't think you should have a fee. i was 15 when i got here. you think i had a paypal? i wasn't gonna go ask my mom to give me her credit card so i could look at t-shirts.</blockquote> I think your story is a common one V. The same would go for me. I knew little of the shirt designing game when I got here over a year ago. I doubt I would have joined if there had been a fee. I'm really thankful for this place because I've learned so much and met so many awesome people in the industry. I think many of us were noobs with only an inkling of what this industry was about when we got here. A fee would deter sooooooo many amazing artists/future amazing artists. 69321 Post 2009-08-26T10:55:23-04:00 2180771 8948 2009-08-26T10:55:35-04:00 <blockquote><cite>PitchGrim said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>volatile v said:</cite> i came here because there was a link on derek deal's blog in like 2007 to this place and design by humans. dbh did not look friendly, emptees did. if i would have come to emptees and seen that there was a sign up fee, i would have been instantly detered. do you know what that would mean for my design abilities, goals, and the like? they wouldn't exist. emptees is the reason i've forced myself to become better. if it wasn't for emptees, i wouldn't be designing for bands like i am today. i don't think you should have a fee. i was 15 when i got here. you think i had a paypal? i wasn't gonna go ask my mom to give me her credit card so i could look at t-shirts.</blockquote> that's kinda the idea unfortunately</blockquote> i highly doubt that the idea behind this community is to weed out people who may find something they truly enjoy. 69321 Post 2009-08-26T11:00:31-04:00 2180831 3515 2009-08-26T11:00:31-04:00 <blockquote><cite>volatile v said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>PitchGrim said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>volatile v said:</cite> i came here because there was a link on derek deal's blog in like 2007 to this place and design by humans. dbh did not look friendly, emptees did. if i would have come to emptees and seen that there was a sign up fee, i would have been instantly detered. do you know what that would mean for my design abilities, goals, and the like? they wouldn't exist. emptees is the reason i've forced myself to become better. if it wasn't for emptees, i wouldn't be designing for bands like i am today. i don't think you should have a fee. i was 15 when i got here. you think i had a paypal? i wasn't gonna go ask my mom to give me her credit card so i could look at t-shirts.</blockquote> that's kinda the idea unfortunately</blockquote> i highly doubt that the idea behind this community is to weed out people who may find something they truly enjoy.</blockquote> people read my blog? 69321 Post 2009-08-26T11:06:32-04:00 2180901 1146 2009-08-26T11:06:32-04:00 <blockquote><cite>volatile v said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>PitchGrim said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>volatile v said:</cite> i came here because there was a link on derek deal's blog in like 2007 to this place and design by humans. dbh did not look friendly, emptees did. if i would have come to emptees and seen that there was a sign up fee, i would have been instantly detered. do you know what that would mean for my design abilities, goals, and the like? they wouldn't exist. emptees is the reason i've forced myself to become better. if it wasn't for emptees, i wouldn't be designing for bands like i am today. i don't think you should have a fee. i was 15 when i got here. you think i had a paypal? i wasn't gonna go ask my mom to give me her credit card so i could look at t-shirts.</blockquote> that's kinda the idea unfortunately</blockquote> i highly doubt that the idea behind this community is to weed out people who may find something they truly enjoy.</blockquote> I was referring to the 15 yr olds who wouldn't be able to subscribe. They'd still be able to read and view shirts, just not submit anything. I'm not saying I agree with a fee but it would be nice to see fewer posts and less BS 69321 Post 2009-08-26T11:13:18-04:00 2181031 12157 2009-08-26T11:13:18-04:00 <blockquote><cite>derekdeal said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>volatile v said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>PitchGrim said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>volatile v said:</cite> i came here because there was a link on derek deal's blog in like 2007 to this place and design by humans. dbh did not look friendly, emptees did. if i would have come to emptees and seen that there was a sign up fee, i would have been instantly detered. do you know what that would mean for my design abilities, goals, and the like? they wouldn't exist. emptees is the reason i've forced myself to become better. if it wasn't for emptees, i wouldn't be designing for bands like i am today. i don't think you should have a fee. i was 15 when i got here. you think i had a paypal? i wasn't gonna go ask my mom to give me her credit card so i could look at t-shirts.</blockquote> that's kinda the idea unfortunately</blockquote> i highly doubt that the idea behind this community is to weed out people who may find something they truly enjoy.</blockquote> people read my blog?</blockquote> dude, when i read the blog, you were still altair industries or whatever. 69321 Post 2009-08-26T11:27:16-04:00 2181341 3515 2009-08-26T11:27:16-04:00 <blockquote><cite>PitchGrim said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>volatile v said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>PitchGrim said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>volatile v said:</cite> i came here because there was a link on derek deal's blog in like 2007 to this place and design by humans. dbh did not look friendly, emptees did. if i would have come to emptees and seen that there was a sign up fee, i would have been instantly detered. do you know what that would mean for my design abilities, goals, and the like? they wouldn't exist. emptees is the reason i've forced myself to become better. if it wasn't for emptees, i wouldn't be designing for bands like i am today. i don't think you should have a fee. i was 15 when i got here. you think i had a paypal? i wasn't gonna go ask my mom to give me her credit card so i could look at t-shirts.</blockquote> that's kinda the idea unfortunately</blockquote> i highly doubt that the idea behind this community is to weed out people who may find something they truly enjoy.</blockquote> I was referring to the 15 yr olds who wouldn't be able to subscribe. They'd still be able to read and view shirts, just not submit anything. I'm not saying I agree with a fee but it would be nice to see fewer posts and less BS</blockquote> It's not only the young teenagers posting BS, It's a two way street from the young and the older. There may be more young kids not understanding so much how to take feedback the right way 69321 Post 2009-08-26T11:30:42-04:00 2181431 2552 2009-08-26T11:30:42-04:00 The idea of participation by invite is the best idea I've seen here. It works for ffffound. 69321 Post 2009-08-26T11:38:45-04:00 2181661 9193 2009-08-26T11:38:45-04:00 putting things back into perspective: <blockquote><cite>Frenden said a while ago:</cite> <blockquote> JUST DRAW SOME GODDAMN SHIRTS!</blockquote> 69321 Post 2009-08-26T11:41:24-04:00 2181691 11937 2009-08-26T11:41:56-04:00 The way I view it is like this, we are all here to improve and get better at what we do but there are a ton of people on here just because it's popular. When I go on the tee section and see these designs or lack there of it kills me because I'm very motivated and love to see others that feel the same. When 80% of the posts are lacking motivation, direction, inspiration , it shows and obviously effects the community. I think a good way to weed out the poor designs (no offense but let's be real) separate them better by actual shirts someone can purchase and ones for sale/other. Serious posts only please!!! You know are able to upload pics on myspace too? 69321 Post 2009-08-26T11:42:09-04:00 2181731 12157 2009-08-26T11:51:29-04:00 Too much emphasis on the negative here. Putting thumbs down signs against things and delting stuff just plain sucks. Why not spend a bit of time telling that person how they could improve and get better. It's too easy for people to put each other down. If you don't like something and you have nothing constructive to say then don't bother. I still think Eric is right in that the talk section just needs tidying up and having some defined areas for serious work and for banter. No need for memberships/invite only stuff. As if the world doesn't already suffer from enough division. Show some tolerance people and learn to respect one another and turn a blind eye to shit you don't like. I would also just like to point out that whenever there is drama around here it is more often than not instigated/perpetuated by the more pro active mebers of this community, not by the little guys posting up their first designs and posting a few pointless threads. 69321 Post 2009-08-26T11:46:46-04:00 2181801 4551 2009-08-26T11:46:46-04:00 Maybe indie labs is already slaving away at new features to help this stuff...maybe Dobi should talk with them. 69321 Post 2009-08-26T12:06:04-04:00 2182101 537 2009-08-26T12:06:04-04:00 what about a voting system? like, if by a few days or so your shirt has 0 to 10 loves, delete it. it would force designers to step up. that way they'd only have TOP NOTCH shirts. just a thought. 69321 Post 2009-08-26T12:55:58-04:00 2183051 10321 2009-08-26T12:55:58-04:00 what about three strikes and your out? 69321 Post 2009-08-26T13:38:12-04:00 2183751 12077 2009-08-26T13:38:12-04:00 Quick thought that occurred when I saw how long this thread has become: pagination would lead to less duplicate threads. Less duplicate threads would lead to an easier to navigate forum. An easier to navigate forum would mean less of the same ten questions over and over again. 69321 Post 2009-08-26T14:52:40-04:00 2184901 5738 2009-08-26T14:52:40-04:00 Plus, I have to imagine the server spends a lot of time chucking really large pages at users when it could be serving much smaller, 50-comment pages. 69321 Post 2009-08-26T14:53:17-04:00 2184921 5738 2009-08-26T14:53:17-04:00 <a href="http://www.amateurillustrator.com/">Found one.</a> It's not as pretty as Emptees but they have some good organization and have implemented some of the suggestions mentioned here. There is a rules and etiquette section, guidelines on what not to post, and even a friendly if you want to hire someone don't be a fucktard. And they tell people that post dumb shit do go to face book or myspace for that shit and keep everything civil. If anyone wanted to see what a community like that looks like. The only thing I don't like there is that it's so slow, you click the refresh and nothing happens what is that. 69321 Post 2009-08-26T15:02:46-04:00 2185031 506 2009-08-26T15:02:46-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Frenden said:</cite> Quick thought that occurred when I saw how long this thread has become: pagination would lead to less duplicate threads. Less duplicate threads would lead to an easier to navigate forum. An easier to navigate forum would mean less of the same ten questions over and over again.</blockquote> i said that a long time ago! i even made a little picture: <img src="http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n86/AndrEw_LOVESTORY/anotheridea.jpg" border="0" alt="addition"> seeee (16 pages would not merit 3 comments, obviously.) 69321 Post 2009-08-26T15:32:16-04:00 2185371 1208 2009-08-26T15:32:44-04:00 this is becoming very unproductive... back and forths are a waste of time 69321 Post 2009-08-26T15:42:55-04:00 2185541 42681 2009-08-26T15:42:55-04:00 im not sure if this has been said but how about a "report" button? someone's being a dick? then someone can report them and their account will be suspended by a mod if the report is valid multiple suspesions lead to termination? 69321 Post 2009-08-26T15:49:06-04:00 2185631 1796 2009-08-26T15:49:06-04:00 I'm more of a lurker... & I wish I had more time to login here... but I caught this post, and really noticed the degradation of the site lately, and I think 3 things would help clean up the riff raff. 1. Limit number Tees you can submit in a 24 hour period...there is no reason to post 20 Tees a day...pace yourself, be selective...chances are the emptees community has seen a skull or zombie shirt anyways. 2. Add Categories in the talk section. there is a reason this is a forum standard....especially for a big community. Emptees is awesome to look at but painful to search and navigate. 3. Implement a requirement to set up an account. kinda like a Captcha authorization Step 1. Sign Up Step 2. Fill out profile Step 3. Upload Avatar Step 4. Upload some required images....maybe complete things I cant live without...or require a Pic of your self, or Step 5. Post an introduction in a designated quarantined thread. Step 6. you are now authorized to post. Make trolls jump through hoops on initial account set up, and they wont be so quick to burn that bridge. This could be coded in, or done manually by moderators. 69321 Post 2009-08-26T16:02:38-04:00 2185741 4344 2009-08-26T16:02:38-04:00 I used to hang around on the archinect.com forum boards a while ago and I always liked the way their boards were set up. Easily divided into categories that could readily be viewed yet still nice and "design-y". they also have an option you could click that let's you view all the threads at once not separated by category. http://www.archinect.com/forum/indexed.php 69321 Post 2009-08-26T16:13:47-04:00 2185941 1644 2009-08-26T16:13:47-04:00 <blockquote><cite>mistahfred said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>downrodeo said:</cite> <img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Symbol_thumbs_down.svg/463px-Symbol_thumbs_down.svg.png" /> <h1>This next to each comment and post.</h1> <b>For Comments:</b> If someone makes a dumbass comment, and 5-10 users give it the thumbs down, it gets hidden. <hr/> <b>For Post:</b> Same thing, but used slightly differently. If there's like duplicate posts and so forth, this comes in handy. 10 thumbs down deletes or hides the post. Also, it works for all those other "Looking For Design | Will Guarantee Exposure | How Do I Use My Computer" posts.</blockquote> gooood idea.</blockquote> jesus thats a better idea for people's designs. if it sucks, if you get a certain number of thumbs down, it gets submitted to a moderator who determines whether or not the image is worth staying. 69321 Post 2009-08-26T16:57:40-04:00 2186541 10321 2009-08-26T16:57:40-04:00 on a site, 12ozprophet.com for graffiti. you need to have a certain "rank" to post Threads. maybe a certain amount of tee loves or something. 69321 Post 2009-08-26T17:02:46-04:00 2186601 9816 2009-08-26T17:02:46-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Eternyl said:</cite> I'm more of a lurker... & I wish I had more time to login here... but I caught this post, and really noticed the degradation of the site lately, and I think 3 things would help clean up the riff raff. 1. Limit number Tees you can submit in a 24 hour period...there is no reason to post 20 Tees a day...pace yourself, be selective...chances are the emptees community has seen a skull or zombie shirt anyways. 2. Add Categories in the talk section. there is a reason this is a forum standard....especially for a big community. Emptees is awesome to look at but painful to search and navigate. 3. Implement a requirement to set up an account. kinda like a Captcha authorization Step 1. Sign Up Step 2. Fill out profile Step 3. Upload Avatar Step 4. Upload some required images....maybe complete things I cant live without...or require a Pic of your self, or Step 5. Post an introduction in a designated quarantined thread. Step 6. you are now authorized to post. Make trolls jump through hoops on initial account set up, and they wont be so quick to burn that bridge. This could be coded in, or done manually by moderators.</blockquote> I said basically the same thing. I think it would be a fairly effective way. 69321 Post 2009-08-26T17:16:37-04:00 2186701 8810 2009-08-26T17:16:37-04:00 If you'll look <a href="http://www.emptees.com/posts/13749-photography-fans">here</a>, the guys at 40/60 have put up a great photography site. As a noob on the whole photography thing, it's incredibly helpful. There are tons of helpful topics that breakup the "talk section" into several smaller sections that keep the crap out of the other areas. For instance, there is a noob section, a section on lighting, a whole area on various cameras, and one for different kind of pictures. As a noob, I am completely confident I can find whatever I want to on there in a matter of minutes. 69321 Post 2009-08-26T18:21:55-04:00 2187551 10311 2009-08-26T18:21:55-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Johnny D said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Eternyl said:</cite> I'm more of a lurker... & I wish I had more time to login here... but I caught this post, and really noticed the degradation of the site lately, and I think 3 things would help clean up the riff raff. 1. Limit number Tees you can submit in a 24 hour period...there is no reason to post 20 Tees a day...pace yourself, be selective...chances are the emptees community has seen a skull or zombie shirt anyways. 2. Add Categories in the talk section. there is a reason this is a forum standard....especially for a big community. Emptees is awesome to look at but painful to search and navigate. 3. Implement a requirement to set up an account. kinda like a Captcha authorization Step 1. Sign Up Step 2. Fill out profile Step 3. Upload Avatar Step 4. Upload some required images....maybe complete things I cant live without...or require a Pic of your self, or Step 5. Post an introduction in a designated quarantined thread. Step 6. you are now authorized to post. Make trolls jump through hoops on initial account set up, and they wont be so quick to burn that bridge. This could be coded in, or done manually by moderators.</blockquote> I said basically the same thing. I think it would be a fairly effective way.</blockquote> On the talk sections I was thinking 3 sections perhaps? 1. Looking for art/selling art 2. Design related discussion 3. Everything Else Maybe one more section for Emptees Community announcements such as town hall meeting posts such as this one, tee off notices etc. 69321 Post 2009-08-26T18:26:43-04:00 2187601 13026 2009-08-26T18:26:43-04:00 i say $2 dollars every time you post a design. I think a monthly fee is too much. There are ammeters relying on being a fucktard and learning from experienced artists like most of you guys and it's easy to learn when you can have a free account and talk to the vets for guidance. I do agree that there are way too many crap posts (even a few of mine were considered crap so i took them down) and having a fee per design post would be a good idea while allowing the fucktards to still learn without losing a bunch of money or posting nonsense. yeah? 69321 Post 2009-08-26T19:18:50-04:00 2188691 10287 2009-08-26T19:18:50-04:00 Nah nah not a fee per design. What do you suggest the money go towards? 69321 Post 2009-08-26T19:31:25-04:00 2189041 12108 2009-08-26T19:31:25-04:00 yeah i don't see this working but it'll be interesting to see where this continues to go 69321 Post 2009-08-26T19:35:07-04:00 2189111 10287 2009-08-26T19:35:07-04:00 <blockquote><cite>downrodeo said:</cite> <img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Symbol_thumbs_down.svg/463px-Symbol_thumbs_down.svg.png" /> <h1>This next to each comment and post.</h1> <b>For Comments:</b> If someone makes a dumbass comment, and 5-10 users give it the thumbs down, it gets hidden. <hr/> <b>For Post:</b> Same thing, but used slightly differently. If there's like duplicate posts and so forth, this comes in handy. 10 thumbs down deletes or hides the post. Also, it works for all those other "Looking For Design | Will Guarantee Exposure | How Do I Use My Computer" posts.</blockquote> 69321 Post 2009-08-26T19:42:47-04:00 2189271 40501 2009-08-26T19:42:47-04:00 $1 dollar to get on board. Im game with that, would weed out the search for glory and hater threads. This thread was too long to read... but I guess that means there is some real emotion attached here. 69321 Post 2009-08-26T19:52:06-04:00 2189401 5504 2009-08-26T19:52:34-04:00 <blockquote><cite>zebrathunder said:</cite> i say $2 dollars every time you post a design.</blockquote> are you kidding? 69321 Post 2009-08-26T22:31:39-04:00 2192341 1208 2009-08-26T22:31:39-04:00 maybe make it a bit harder to become a member? a joining design post? or different types of accounts after you get a certain amount of "loves" and stuff. make it more of a personal competition site urging people to post better designs and of course have 2 different tee sections one shitty and one good. but leaving th option to get voted out of the shitty part, im rambling. ( excuse my grammar please) 69321 Post 2009-08-26T23:07:15-04:00 2192941 9543 2009-08-26T23:07:15-04:00 A Respectful Critique of someone's work is what many have to consider. When you ask for people's input and they react to your work like it's shit on the bottom of their shoe of course the artist is going to react negatively. Just be respectful. Some peoples mothers must've never taught them that. <a href="http://wc4skate.com/">WC4Skate</a> 69321 Post 2009-08-26T23:37:11-04:00 2193291 15521 2009-08-26T23:37:11-04:00 I vote for an "ignore" button. 69321 Post 2009-08-27T00:18:58-04:00 2193591 1087 2009-08-27T00:18:58-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Guillermo said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>downrodeo said:</cite> <img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Symbol_thumbs_down.svg/463px-Symbol_thumbs_down.svg.png" /> <h1>This next to each comment and post.</h1> <b>For Comments:</b> If someone makes a dumbass comment, and 5-10 users give it the thumbs down, it gets hidden. <hr/> <b>For Post:</b> Same thing, but used slightly differently. If there's like duplicate posts and so forth, this comes in handy. 10 thumbs down deletes or hides the post. Also, it works for all those other "Looking For Design | Will Guarantee Exposure | How Do I Use My Computer" posts.</blockquote></blockquote> works on youtube. would definitely work here too imo. 69321 Post 2009-08-27T00:56:21-04:00 2193891 11562 2009-08-27T00:56:21-04:00 I suggest an Emptees Death Match. And he who survives decides all the rules. Seriously though, there are a lot of good suggestions here but I'll keep mine about the t-shirts and money/paying/emptees hosting fees. We have so much designs here but not a lot of it ever get to print on shirts. So why not print shirts from emptees artists on teefury.com and give the $1 profit back to help emptees pay for it's hosting? This obviously still needs Teefury/Jimiyo, and the artists' approval but here's how it'll work: 1) A designer like Mumford or GM, etc. donates a design and posts it on Emptees. 2) People who love it say "I'll buy it" or something like that. 3) If we get say at least 100 people who say "i'll buy it", we show the design to Jimiyo/Teefury for approval. 4) If it's a go, then they print it, sell it, and Emptees gets $100 (more or less). And the artist gets their art back. And emptees fans get an awesome Mumford/GM print for only 9 bucks! 5) Everybody wins. 6) Repeat the process once a month and the potential is huge. Obviously, this can also work for non-big name artists. There are a lot of gems from lesser known artists here that get a lot of votes but are never printed. The profit could be split with the artist too. So in the end, emptees stays alive and artists submit better designs. What do you guys think?? 69321 Post 2009-08-27T01:45:23-04:00 2194491 1259 2009-08-27T01:45:23-04:00 I would feel obligated to buy the shirt. I would rather just give the money directly to Emptees. Your intentions are good, but there is a slight feeling of exploitation, as Tee Fury would also benefit and that's not what the fund raiser is for. I would feel more comfortable participating if it was like last years Zombie shirt and all proceeds went to Emptees. They were so cheap they probably lost money, But something like $15+shipping for an Emptees shirt. I would pay that, even if it is a one color logo tee. 69321 Post 2009-08-27T03:08:54-04:00 2195301 506 2009-08-27T03:08:54-04:00 i think collision theory's idea is great, i've never baught at tee-fury but if that happened i'd feel like i'd have to buy one just out of pure awesomness! that and i love some of the shirts on here so would love to see more printed. 69321 Post 2009-08-27T04:17:09-04:00 2195751 8874 2009-08-27T04:17:53-04:00 <blockquote><cite>quakerninja said:</cite> I would feel obligated to buy the shirt. I would rather just give the money directly to Emptees. Your intentions are good, but there is a slight feeling of exploitation, as Tee Fury would also benefit and that's not what the fund raiser is for. I would feel more comfortable participating if it was like last years Zombie shirt and all proceeds went to Emptees. They were so cheap they probably lost money, But something like $15+shipping for an Emptees shirt. I would pay that, even if it is a one color logo tee.</blockquote> You're right. I realized that Teefury is not the only option. There are tons of screenprinters here.They can offer to print the designs too the way Jimmy did with the emptees zombie shirt. But not at a loss. They must earn something for their time too. Say do pre-ordering and set the price at $12-15 or something. The printer gets a cut, Emptees gets a cut, and the artist gets a cut too. At least, that way everybody earns something, at the same time emptees benefits. I'm pretty sure there are screenprinters here who are willing to do this so it doesn't have to be Teefury.. 69321 Post 2009-08-27T06:41:26-04:00 2196531 1259 2009-08-27T06:41:26-04:00 With 4 million page views emptees could just charge more for ad space. 69321 Post 2009-08-27T07:46:02-04:00 2197141 506 2009-08-27T07:46:02-04:00 Although my following suggestions won't stop the 'noise', they may help. The Tees sections could become like a Flickr group whereby you are only allowed to submit one image per day, you can upload as much as you like to Emptees but only one design could be showcased. All other designs could still be viewed by selecting a filter in the sidebar. The default filter / view would be to show only the showcased work. I'm not sure which thread it was but @Wotto suggested that a new shirt status option, "Vote for this", could be implemented. This would help people advertise their designs without having to create a new thread for each and every design they have in the running. A basic version of the "Captcha authorisation" @Eternyl suggested to set up profiles when creating an account would be beneficial. A questions section could be implemented. A user posts their question and the post is live until the question is answered. The appropriate answer is then selected and highlighted by the asker, the thread will then be locked. Once a thread is locked it would change the status of the question from being open to closed, this would allow people to filter the content depending on whether they are looking for answers or to answer questions. The questions section could have topics: "software", "technique" and so on, in a similar way to the talk section, this would help keep everything organised. If the asker of the question finds the answer before someone is able to respond, they should answer their own question for the benefit of others. 69321 Post 2009-08-27T08:38:05-04:00 2197591 3086 2009-08-27T08:47:38-04:00 Image moderation in the tees section. Dobi tried this but art is so subjective it's hard for just one person to be the judge jury and executioner of them all. It should be self moderated, a simple note like: "Hay wait a minute pal are you sure this is the best tee you got, remember this section is for you to show off, we want to see your best work only. You are welcome to show works in progress, or request help Here" (add link to appropriate forum) 69321 Post 2009-08-27T09:14:32-04:00 2197921 506 2009-08-27T09:14:32-04:00 Okay just read this whole thread. Personally I would pay a small fee to have access to Emptees, but don't know if that would stem the tide anyway. Invite only would probably not appeal to Indielabs and could be perceived as elitist. Honestly some heavier moderation and specific limits/harder steps to posting would probably be the most effective and piss off the least amount of people. Someone mentioned Gigposters method of approval and that seems to work well for them. 69321 Post 2009-08-27T10:47:18-04:00 2198861 6815 2009-08-27T10:47:18-04:00 (a) I would be pay for Emptees (b) one tee a day per person is perf (c) eternyl's idea is awesome sounding (d) pagination! (e) better categories like Eric said. awh Eric. (f) I ♥ Indie Labs 69321 Post 2009-08-27T14:06:34-04:00 2201511 1404 2009-08-27T14:06:34-04:00 I agree with everything Greg said, I really like the "Questions" Section, it would help out with the noob posts 69321 Post 2009-08-27T17:14:01-04:00 2204111 10311 2009-08-27T17:14:01-04:00 I would pay. I don't like the idea of one a day though. When someone like Dobi posts 2 or 3 shirts in a row I think its okay because he rarely ever posts anyway. Maybe how long you've been here depends on how many shirts you can post a day. No more than 3 though. 69321 Post 2009-08-28T03:54:53-04:00 2210471 2314 2009-08-28T03:54:53-04:00 i agree with greg too. as for the monthly payments, why not just donations? idk, just throwin that out there. i know some websites use it so i thought id say that. 69321 Post 2009-08-28T04:48:15-04:00 2210901 9857 2009-08-28T04:48:15-04:00 I didn't read all of the post above me so I'll try to keep this short and sweet. Seems to me most of these issues could be solved with some coding that allows you to post a certain amount of times a day as a new member and the longer you are a member and the more positive feedback you get you are allowed to post more tees/talk etc per day. So basically newbie members would have to pay their dues and contribute to the community a little more. Basically let the codeing of the site moderate itself a little more. That will keep the BS down easier than having people pay to be a member. I think emptees is worth it but I also notice a downturn in what people are willing to pay for in these economic times. 69321 Post 2009-08-28T05:24:20-04:00 2211081 8433 2009-08-28T05:24:20-04:00 Pagination and a questions section would really work well. I especially like what Greg suggested about being able to highlight the answer that solved the problem so people can go straight to it if needs be. 69321 Post 2009-08-28T11:01:35-04:00 2213521 6884 2009-08-28T11:01:35-04:00 Not to offend anyone - but even the people who CAN pay can be shitty at times, eh? <blockquote><cite>jpolo said:</cite> <b> So basically newbie members would have to pay their dues and contribute to the community a little more. Basically let the codeing of the site moderate itself a little more. That will keep the BS down easier than having people pay to be a member. </b> I think emptees is worth it but I also notice a downturn in what people are willing to pay for in these economic times.</blockquote> What I'm thinking / suggesting is a bit similar to this - that a member can't instantly create threads/reply to threads unless they deem "worthy" of it. How to determine if they're "worthy" - maybe if they have like a minimum of like 5 "good quality" (meaning not blurry, proper mockup and all that jazz from the post-a-tee-rule) tee posts; maybe that would at least prove that they're a decent enough member. Then from then on, mods can do their part. In summary, 1. person registers in emptees 2. not allowed to post/create threads - allowed to upload 1 tee a day 3. after around 5 "quality" tee submissions, allowed to post and or create threads 4. if member "shits" on threads - mods can warn them or ban them for like 3days/5days >>> this may be a pain in the ass for mods since they have to constantly watch the forums/threads... Dunno really; there's bound to be lots of loopholes on this solution maybe. Just a suggestion though... 69321 Post 2009-08-28T12:16:55-04:00 2214571 10367 2009-08-28T12:19:54-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Greg Abbott said:</cite> Although my following suggestions won't stop the 'noise', they may help. The Tees sections could become like a Flickr group whereby you are only allowed to submit one image per day, you can upload as much as you like to Emptees but only one design could be showcased. All other designs could still be viewed by selecting a filter in the sidebar. The default filter / view would be to show only the showcased work. </blockquote> Wouldn't it affect your visibility? As you are a super-prolific designer, you would one of the most brimmed by this, a lot of your artwork wouldn't get all the views that they deserve. <blockquote><cite>quakerninja said:</cite> Image moderation in the tees section. Dobi tried this but art is so subjective it's hard for just one person to be the judge jury and executioner of them all. It should be self moderated, a simple note like: "Hay wait a minute pal are you sure this is the best tee you got, remember this section is for you to show off, we want to see your best work only. You are welcome to show works in progress, or request help Here" (add link to appropriate forum)</blockquote> What about separating the Finished/Not Finished sections and allowing people to vote if a design suitable enough to be considered as finished, after something like 15 "Rework it" the shirt is removed from the finished section and sent to the not finished one, and the designer gets notified when he loggin. Same thing if you post a not finished shirt. People could vote to says they consider this as finished. I think it would clear the tee section and highlight the" Non-TOTD but great" shirts. For the Talk section, 1 post/day/person would be a good start, also, it would be nice that if someone start a new tread, after entering the title of the article, something like " do you mean : (A link to posts that have a related title) Also separating the Talk section into sections like said before would be a great ideas Just my 2cents Sorry if my English isn't awesome. 69321 Post 2009-08-28T12:18:54-04:00 2214611 1813 2009-08-28T12:18:54-04:00 stuff like this is why emptees gets the way it does. http://emptees.com/posts/70961-how-do-i-wipe-my-ass 69321 Post 2009-08-28T19:27:35-04:00 2222331 29171 2009-08-28T19:27:35-04:00 good luck trying to fix it guys. this place is getting worse by the day. Dobi seems like he may help clean this place up but he needs help. 69321 Post 2009-08-29T06:51:12-04:00 2228011 9442 2009-08-29T06:51:12-04:00 I have just been reading through this all, and would like to say: 1) Emptees Rocks. 2) I do agree that sometimes a tee goes up and it gets pushed to page 3 because some people upload more than one at a time. 3) People like ray Freden are awesome as they always give feedback, with positive ways to change/develop a design. That is why I joined up to this site. 4) I rarely use the forum so I don't really see these trolls posting crap. sorry 5)1 tee per day would be fine by me. Makes good sense. I don't really use this site for self promotion, I just like to show people what I am proud of producing. 6) The guy from Indie Merch made some great points. They're the ones that run this, and by all accounts the last thing they want is for this to be a headache for them. I don't have a solution, but I do know that we need to find a simple answer, so they don't have shit loads to do to maintain this awesome site we all love. 7) I hope what I have written doesn't sound like a pile of crap/wank/jizz/trolls 69321 Post 2009-08-29T09:55:47-04:00 2228941 10741 2009-08-29T09:55:47-04:00 <blockquote><cite>quakerninja said:</cite> With 4 million page views emptees could just charge more for ad space.</blockquote> don't they do that now? 69321 Post 2009-08-30T06:58:42-04:00 2238981 1219 2009-08-30T06:58:42-04:00 How about increasing the Today's Top Tees instead of the usual 15? Since there has been an increase in members. But thats just my pitch. 69321 Post 2009-08-30T07:41:28-04:00 2239161 10603 2009-08-30T07:41:28-04:00 how about split gallery's? -one for noobs(that's me) -one for mid range artists - one for Dobi's and only mods can move you up to another gallery. ? just an idea. 69321 Post 2009-08-30T10:09:28-04:00 2239821 10420 2009-08-30T10:09:28-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Riff said:</cite> stuff like this is why emptees gets the way it does. http://emptees.com/posts/70961-how-do-i-wipe-my-ass</blockquote> nope 69321 Post 2009-08-30T12:07:54-04:00 2240661 1208 2009-08-30T12:07:54-04:00 <blockquote><cite>dovemans said:</cite> how about split gallery's? -one for noobs(that's me) -one for mid range artists - one for Dobi's and only mods can move you up to another gallery. ? just an idea.</blockquote> actually that's pretty serious. 69321 Post 2009-08-30T15:00:40-04:00 2242641 13245 2009-08-30T15:00:40-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Jakeness said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>andrE w. said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Riff said:</cite> stuff like this is why emptees gets the way it does. http://emptees.com/posts/70961-how-do-i-wipe-my-ass</blockquote> nope</blockquote> Riff obviously didn't read that thread and or doesn't understand its joke/meaning.</blockquote> no, i understand it is a joke BUT why have so many "joke" threads cluttering up the forum. why not just let it go and stop calling people out? just my opinion though, no hard feelings. 69321 Post 2009-08-30T15:11:37-04:00 2242911 29171 2009-08-30T15:11:37-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Riff said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Jakeness said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>andrE w. said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Riff said:</cite> stuff like this is why emptees gets the way it does. http://emptees.com/posts/70961-how-do-i-wipe-my-ass</blockquote> nope</blockquote> Riff obviously didn't read that thread and or doesn't understand its joke/meaning.</blockquote> no, i understand it is a joke BUT why have so many "joke" threads cluttering up the forum. why not just let it go and stop calling people out? just my opinion though, no hard feelings.</blockquote> Sorry, I deleted my post but you already replied, I didn't want to instigate there. It's a pretty sarcastic and harsh thread and there for sure could be better ways to deal with it but I think that thread got the point across to the indiviual(s). 69321 Post 2009-08-30T15:13:59-04:00 2242971 13026 2009-08-30T15:13:59-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Jakeness said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Riff said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Jakeness said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>andrE w. said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Riff said:</cite> stuff like this is why emptees gets the way it does. http://emptees.com/posts/70961-how-do-i-wipe-my-ass</blockquote> nope</blockquote> Riff obviously didn't read that thread and or doesn't understand its joke/meaning.</blockquote> no, i understand it is a joke BUT why have so many "joke" threads cluttering up the forum. why not just let it go and stop calling people out? just my opinion though, no hard feelings.</blockquote> Sorry, I deleted my post but you already replied, I didn't want to instigate there. It's a pretty sarcastic and harsh thread and there for sure could be better ways to deal with it but I think that thread got the point across to the indiviual(s).</blockquote> its fine man:) i understand what he did when he posted it. but to keep drama OFF of emptees he could have just left it alone or maybe have sent the guy an email instead of starting a thread where everyone makes fun of someone. again though, this is just my opinion, not trying to step on toes:) 69321 Post 2009-08-30T15:18:13-04:00 2243041 29171 2009-08-30T15:18:13-04:00 <blockquote><cite>dovemans said:</cite> how about split gallery's? -one for noobs(that's me) -one for mid range artists - one for Dobi's and only mods can move you up to another gallery. ? just an idea.</blockquote> Yeah, and all the blacks have to sit at the back of the bus. /sarcasm 69321 Post 2009-08-30T16:20:06-04:00 2244061 2141 2009-08-30T16:21:03-04:00 can i delete this now? 69321 Post 2009-08-31T11:21:22-04:00 2256911 2991 2009-08-31T11:21:22-04:00 eh, dont delete it i did un sticky it though 69321 Post 2009-08-31T11:24:58-04:00 2257001 1146 2009-08-31T11:24:58-04:00 I think it's a good time to bump this. It's not the noobs that are to blame its a choice to be negative or encouraging. If I want a dog to stop doing somethihng I yell at it. Odd as it sounds this works with people too. The be tough don't be butthurt olny gets someone so far, they are real people at the other end of the keyboard remember. Yeah I could say something mean and often times I do, but when I get the idea that I might be actually really hurting someones feelings I have the sense enough to leave it be. Please choose nice over funny once in a while, it's not to much to ask. 69321 Post 2009-10-16T09:39:33-04:00 2877211 506 2009-10-16T09:44:35-04:00 resurrected. wtf's going on? i think i missed something. 69321 Post 2009-10-16T10:02:10-04:00 2877331 2991 2009-10-16T10:02:10-04:00