stocks are going to shoot up for a while today...but I doubt they will finish positive for the week...the speculators drove the prices down in a move to force the house to pass the bailout, but that doesn’t mean everything will go back to normal now, the market is still horrible. The bailout doesn’t actually do much to inspire confidence in the true value of the market, and most investors are left scratching their heads to the value of the assets of the companies they own stock in, especially with all the diluting that is going on.
ste7en said: stocks are going to shoot up for a while today...but I doubt they will finish positive for the week...the speculators drove the prices down in a move to force the house to pass the bailout, but that doesn’t mean everything will go back to normal now, the market is still horrible. The bailout doesn’t actually do much to inspire confidence in the true value of the market, and most investors are left scratching their heads to the value of the assets of the companies they own stock in, especially with all the diluting that is going on.
I’m not saying ok everything is gonna be fine now, but I know I feel more comfortable knowing that companies that are tied that closely to our economy aren’t all crashing and burning all at once.
how much pork that was tacked on to this was ridiculous.
wooden arrows, Rum and Racetracks.....weird.
451 pages long, with a lot of places to hide stuff.
the DOW is up 6 points....
and since everyone is getting Bail outs
California may need a $7 billion emergency loan from the federal government to pay for "teachers' salaries, nursing homes, law enforcement and every other state-funded service" this month.
Yeah!
America’s economy needs a fresh install...and hard reboot.
Eternyl said: how much pork that was tacked on to this was ridiculous.
wooden arrows, Rum and Racetracks.....weird.
451 pages long, with a lot of places to hide stuff.
the DOW is up 6 points....
and since everyone is getting Bail outs
California may need a $7 billion emergency loan from the federal government to pay for "teachers' salaries, nursing homes, law enforcement and every other state-funded service" this month.
Yeah!
America’s economy needs a fresh install...and hard reboot.
Anyone know the origin of calling it "Pork"? Did the first person to do this add on spending for pigs?
The origin of the phrase may come from a pre-Civil War practice of giving slaves a barrel of salt pork as a reward and requiring them to compete among themselves to get their share of the handout. It basically amounts to various representatives fighting over where the feds spend their money.
the bailout isn’t going to fix anything, its not even designed to...its design to stablalize the dropoff in the market,and price fix, which is essentially going to cause inflation to go through the roof (not to mention this newly printed 700 billion from thin air will dilute the value of the dollar even further)...so theres a good chance you’ll be paying $10,000 for a loaf of bread in the next 5 years, on top of your newly earned record taxes for the next however long it takes to pay for this bill.
When is anything ever a magic pill? This is whats gonna happen. People are gonna wait to see if banks will start lending again. Once it does, confidence will be up, and people will start investing in the market again.
Look maybe I’m a hopeless optimist. And like I said if this all collapses anyway and we go to shit, I’ll do the whole "You were right, I was wrong... shit and laugh in my general direction" skit.
I hear you dude, and I certainly have nothing against you in a personal sense, by any means.
I just think this is going to do much more harm than good. May it straighten out the market over the course of a few days or weeks? Sure. But it will certainly not do all it is designed. All this is doing is giving a free pass to all the greedy bankers and the other people who caused this mess. We will continue to see the american people get poorer, jobs get lost, etc etc. And in my eyes, anything that doesn’t direcly benifit and better the lives of the american people is a failure. Does it suck that people are losing money in their stocks? Sure. Does it suck that people are losing their 401k matches? Sure. But that is a risk you take. You know when you buy stock that it could drop and you could lose your money. You know when you put money in your 401k that you could lose the additional contributions. Bottom line is, your original money is fine. You are just losing the extra - it’s a risk you knowingly take.. regardless of how much it sucks.
And for the record. I hope that in a few weeks or months someone can say "I told you so" to me. Because it would be great to know that this actually helped the people, I just don’t see it happening.
Ya stock is a risk, and ya the banks were greedy and don’t deserve this bailout by any means... but just because someone isn’t deserving doesn’t mean that if they fail, the American Economy won’t collapse.
Like Obama said, we have to first put out the fire... then we can go and find the people responsible for it and make them pay. This isn’t the end of this whole thing, but just the first step.
And as for 401k goes... it more than just sucks. That’s what many people depend on to live for the rest of their lives. My grandfather might not have enough money now to live on his own for the rest of his life. That’s more than just an 'It sucks'... its a life ruiner.
It absolutely is a life ruiner and I feel horribly for the people who have lost their money (my family included) - but you know the risks when you get into it. That doesn’t make it right or any better, but it is the reason why I keep my savings outside of the bank haha. I think for me it is just a trust issue! I’m a freelance artist with no 401k, no retirement, nothing. I would have opened accounts years ago, but I am too suspicious of how things work to allow anyone to have control over and possibly lose some of my money.
I certainly do hope there is a way for your grandfather, my grandparents and others to get that money back. Unfortunately, I don’t see this bail out helping that, but you never know what will happen. Best of luck to your family, though.
justinryan said: It absolutely is a life ruiner and I feel horribly for the people who have lost their money (my family included) - but you know the risks when you get into it. That doesn’t make it right or any better, but it is the reason why I keep my savings outside of the bank haha. I think for me it is just a trust issue! I’m a freelance artist with no 401k, no retirement, nothing. I would have opened accounts years ago, but I am too suspicious of how things work to allow anyone to have control over and possibly lose some of my money.
I certainly do hope there is a way for your grandfather, my grandparents and others to get that money back. Unfortunately, I don’t see this bail out helping that, but you never know what will happen. Best of luck to your family, though.
Catch 22 right? You’ve got your money on hand so if the bank folds you don’t lose it but what about when that money is worth next to nothing like you said earlier? I was reading on Ron Paul’s page about how you can’t even get a fair exchange for your money in gold and silver the way they have it set up.
Catch 22 right? You’ve got your money on hand so if the bank folds you don’t lose it but what about when that money is worth next to nothing like you said earlier? I was reading on Ron Paul’s page about how you can’t even get a fair exchange for your money in gold and silver the way they have it set up.
Ya that system was scrapped ages ago. Money has no value itself anymore.
It’s a magic pill because thats how legislators and the media approached it. Nowhere was it mentioned that it was going to be a drawn out process. It was sold as a quick and instant solution.
While you and I may know better, the majority of Americans (the ones who refuse to vote for Obama because of his middle name or only love him because of the Obama Girls) just got Rickrolled.
Catch 22 right? You’ve got your money on hand so if the bank folds you don’t lose it but what about when that money is worth next to nothing like you said earlier? I was reading on Ron Paul’s page about how you can’t even get a fair exchange for your money in gold and silver the way they have it set up.
Ya that system was scrapped ages ago. Money has no value itself anymore.
Lets bring back the silver certificates eh?
I know, what I meant was taking your money out of the bank and buying gold and silver, a sort of poormans version of that system...no pun intended. The thing is that you can’t even get your money’s worth that way either because of the retarded taxes and fees they levy against you.
"One of the main stumbling blocks is Federal legal tender laws, which state that government-controlled fiat currency MUST be accepted for many kinds of monetary transactions. In light of this, Gresham’s Law takes effect. Gresham’s Law states that bad money drives out good money. Meaning, if someone is forced to accept your bad money, it is to your advantage to pass it off, like a hot potato, in exchange for something of value. Any good money you have, you will hoard. Eventually, real money is driven out of circulation and under people’s mattresses, so to speak. In the absence of legal tender laws, people are free to accept the medium of exchange of their choice, and are likely to insist on payment in something of real value.
Related to legal tender laws, contracts in gold are not enforced. Meaning if two parties agree to exchange goods or services for gold, and end up in a dispute, the courts will simply settle the dispute in Federal Reserve notes.* Governments should do very little, in my estimation, but it should enforce contracts and property rights through the courts. But in this instance it shirks this basic duty, when it comes to gold, as one way to keep control of our economy and the medium of exchange. One is also expected to pay sales tax on the purchase of gold. This is as ludicrous as if you paid sales tax at the bank when you converted dollars into quarters! The IRS also expects you to pay capital gains tax on gold, which is so backwards, since gains on gold really represent decline in the value of the dollar!"
read more here, its almost prophetic in terms of hoarding.
ghostforhire said: It’s a magic pill because thats how legislators and the media approached it. Nowhere was it mentioned that it was going to be a drawn out process. It was sold as a quick and instant solution.
While you and I may know better, the majority of Americans (the ones who refuse to vote for Obama because of his middle name or only love him because of the Obama Girls) just got Rickrolled.
.kinda like the debate about drilling for oil domestically. but at least the opposition to that is getting some air time.
ghostforhire said: It’s a magic pill because thats how legislators and the media approached it. Nowhere was it mentioned that it was going to be a drawn out process. It was sold as a quick and instant solution.
While you and I may know better, the majority of Americans (the ones who refuse to vote for Obama because of his middle name or only love him because of the Obama Girls) just got Rickrolled.
Shitty, I read that we had no choice but to pass it though because china and saudi arabia threatened to stop loaning us money and was going to blackmail us into buying back our bad debts.
FunForAllKids said: Shitty, I read that we had no choice but to pass it though because china and saudi arabia threatened to stop loaning us money and was going to blackmail us into buying back our bad debts.
Ya we had a good chunk of the world yelling at us to fix the problem... some sort of something had to be passed. We didn’t have a choice.
FunForAllKids said: Shitty, I read that we had no choice but to pass it though because china and saudi arabia threatened to stop loaning us money and was going to blackmail us into buying back our bad debts.
Ya we had a good chunk of the world yelling at us to fix the problem... some sort of something had to be passed. We didn’t have a choice.
designisvoice said: Divide $700 billion by the population of N. America (est. 550 million). That’s over $1,200 per person.
The American Dollar is so fucked it’s not even funny.
For a little while ya, better than it being fucked because of a stock market crash though.
36 Comments
RustyEight said about 1 month ago
It is.
Just watch... Stocks are gonna shoot up today.
ste7en said about 1 month ago
stocks are going to shoot up for a while today...but I doubt they will finish positive for the week...the speculators drove the prices down in a move to force the house to pass the bailout, but that doesn’t mean everything will go back to normal now, the market is still horrible. The bailout doesn’t actually do much to inspire confidence in the true value of the market, and most investors are left scratching their heads to the value of the assets of the companies they own stock in, especially with all the diluting that is going on.
cajun metal said about 1 month ago
RustyEight said about 1 month ago
I’m not saying ok everything is gonna be fine now, but I know I feel more comfortable knowing that companies that are tied that closely to our economy aren’t all crashing and burning all at once.
justinryan said about 1 month ago
Horray! We’ve been rescued. Dinner is on me!
p.s. look for me in a few months. I’ll be the one saying I told you so.
ghostforhire said about 1 month ago
The only good thing coming out of this bailout is raising the FDIC to 250K.
RustyEight said about 1 month ago
Please do. If I’m wrong about this, please dig in.
Kevin Doom said about 1 month ago
Hooray money! So, like, which company am I the CEO of now?
Eternyl said about 1 month ago
how much pork that was tacked on to this was ridiculous.
wooden arrows, Rum and Racetracks.....weird.
451 pages long, with a lot of places to hide stuff.
the DOW is up 6 points....
and since everyone is getting Bail outs
California may need a $7 billion emergency loan from the federal government to pay for "teachers' salaries, nursing homes, law enforcement and every other state-funded service" this month.
Yeah!
America’s economy needs a fresh install...and hard reboot.
Random said about 1 month ago
Well said sir.
Kevin Doom said about 1 month ago
Anyone know the origin of calling it "Pork"? Did the first person to do this add on spending for pigs?
Edit: Thank you, Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pork_barrel
ste7en said about 1 month ago
The origin of the phrase may come from a pre-Civil War practice of giving slaves a barrel of salt pork as a reward and requiring them to compete among themselves to get their share of the handout. It basically amounts to various representatives fighting over where the feds spend their money.
ghostforhire said about 1 month ago
Bailout FAIL!
Stocks drop on economic concerns despite bailout
RustyEight said about 1 month ago
Give it time dude, we’re not gonna fix a week worth of market negativity in a day.
ghostforhire said about 1 month ago
All I’m saying is its not the magic pill these snake oil salesman were selling.
ste7en said about 1 month ago
the bailout isn’t going to fix anything, its not even designed to...its design to stablalize the dropoff in the market,and price fix, which is essentially going to cause inflation to go through the roof (not to mention this newly printed 700 billion from thin air will dilute the value of the dollar even further)...so theres a good chance you’ll be paying $10,000 for a loaf of bread in the next 5 years, on top of your newly earned record taxes for the next however long it takes to pay for this bill.
ste7en said about 1 month ago
and lets not even get into where the money for the extra 460 pages is coming from
RustyEight said about 1 month ago
When is anything ever a magic pill? This is whats gonna happen. People are gonna wait to see if banks will start lending again. Once it does, confidence will be up, and people will start investing in the market again.
Look maybe I’m a hopeless optimist. And like I said if this all collapses anyway and we go to shit, I’ll do the whole "You were right, I was wrong... shit and laugh in my general direction" skit.
justinryan said about 1 month ago
I hear you dude, and I certainly have nothing against you in a personal sense, by any means.
I just think this is going to do much more harm than good. May it straighten out the market over the course of a few days or weeks? Sure. But it will certainly not do all it is designed. All this is doing is giving a free pass to all the greedy bankers and the other people who caused this mess. We will continue to see the american people get poorer, jobs get lost, etc etc. And in my eyes, anything that doesn’t direcly benifit and better the lives of the american people is a failure. Does it suck that people are losing money in their stocks? Sure. Does it suck that people are losing their 401k matches? Sure. But that is a risk you take. You know when you buy stock that it could drop and you could lose your money. You know when you put money in your 401k that you could lose the additional contributions. Bottom line is, your original money is fine. You are just losing the extra - it’s a risk you knowingly take.. regardless of how much it sucks.
And for the record. I hope that in a few weeks or months someone can say "I told you so" to me. Because it would be great to know that this actually helped the people, I just don’t see it happening.
RustyEight said about 1 month ago
Ya stock is a risk, and ya the banks were greedy and don’t deserve this bailout by any means... but just because someone isn’t deserving doesn’t mean that if they fail, the American Economy won’t collapse.
Like Obama said, we have to first put out the fire... then we can go and find the people responsible for it and make them pay. This isn’t the end of this whole thing, but just the first step.
And as for 401k goes... it more than just sucks. That’s what many people depend on to live for the rest of their lives. My grandfather might not have enough money now to live on his own for the rest of his life. That’s more than just an 'It sucks'... its a life ruiner.
justinryan said about 1 month ago
It absolutely is a life ruiner and I feel horribly for the people who have lost their money (my family included) - but you know the risks when you get into it. That doesn’t make it right or any better, but it is the reason why I keep my savings outside of the bank haha. I think for me it is just a trust issue! I’m a freelance artist with no 401k, no retirement, nothing. I would have opened accounts years ago, but I am too suspicious of how things work to allow anyone to have control over and possibly lose some of my money.
I certainly do hope there is a way for your grandfather, my grandparents and others to get that money back. Unfortunately, I don’t see this bail out helping that, but you never know what will happen. Best of luck to your family, though.
RustyEight said about 1 month ago
Same to you dude.
cajun metal said about 1 month ago
Catch 22 right? You’ve got your money on hand so if the bank folds you don’t lose it but what about when that money is worth next to nothing like you said earlier? I was reading on Ron Paul’s page about how you can’t even get a fair exchange for your money in gold and silver the way they have it set up.
RustyEight said about 1 month ago
Ya that system was scrapped ages ago. Money has no value itself anymore.
Lets bring back the silver certificates eh?
ghostforhire said about 1 month ago
It’s a magic pill because thats how legislators and the media approached it. Nowhere was it mentioned that it was going to be a drawn out process. It was sold as a quick and instant solution.
While you and I may know better, the majority of Americans (the ones who refuse to vote for Obama because of his middle name or only love him because of the Obama Girls) just got Rickrolled.
cajun metal said about 1 month ago
I know, what I meant was taking your money out of the bank and buying gold and silver, a sort of poormans version of that system...no pun intended. The thing is that you can’t even get your money’s worth that way either because of the retarded taxes and fees they levy against you.
"One of the main stumbling blocks is Federal legal tender laws, which state that government-controlled fiat currency MUST be accepted for many kinds of monetary transactions. In light of this, Gresham’s Law takes effect. Gresham’s Law states that bad money drives out good money. Meaning, if someone is forced to accept your bad money, it is to your advantage to pass it off, like a hot potato, in exchange for something of value. Any good money you have, you will hoard. Eventually, real money is driven out of circulation and under people’s mattresses, so to speak. In the absence of legal tender laws, people are free to accept the medium of exchange of their choice, and are likely to insist on payment in something of real value.
Related to legal tender laws, contracts in gold are not enforced. Meaning if two parties agree to exchange goods or services for gold, and end up in a dispute, the courts will simply settle the dispute in Federal Reserve notes.* Governments should do very little, in my estimation, but it should enforce contracts and property rights through the courts. But in this instance it shirks this basic duty, when it comes to gold, as one way to keep control of our economy and the medium of exchange. One is also expected to pay sales tax on the purchase of gold. This is as ludicrous as if you paid sales tax at the bank when you converted dollars into quarters! The IRS also expects you to pay capital gains tax on gold, which is so backwards, since gains on gold really represent decline in the value of the dollar!"
read more here, its almost prophetic in terms of hoarding.
.kinda like the debate about drilling for oil domestically. but at least the opposition to that is getting some air time.
RustyEight said about 1 month ago
Good use of Rickrolled
ghostforhire said about 1 month ago
Greatest
Term
Ever
FunForAllKids said about 1 month ago
Shitty, I read that we had no choice but to pass it though because china and saudi arabia threatened to stop loaning us money and was going to blackmail us into buying back our bad debts.
RustyEight said about 1 month ago
Ya we had a good chunk of the world yelling at us to fix the problem... some sort of something had to be passed. We didn’t have a choice.
designisvoice said about 1 month ago
Divide $700 billion by the population of N. America (est. 550 million). That’s over $1,200 per person.
The American Dollar is so fucked it’s not even funny.
cajun metal said about 1 month ago
um I think we did and it rhymes with Mulk Mogan
RustyEight said about 1 month ago
For a little while ya, better than it being fucked because of a stock market crash though.
FunForAllKids said about 1 month ago
Hulk Hogan failed us worse than our own President. :[ a sad day for all of america
JonPaul said about 1 month ago
http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/industries/finance/aig-executives-blow--getting-bailout/
See what AIG did once they got a government bailout..... i wish someone would pay for my vacation.
kcsallstar said about 1 month ago
lovely bunch of spoiled a holes...go America...